SGE/RPR feedback thread crosspost

[Renathras]

Just one I found and thought the comments were interesting and I know you guys have views on SGE: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...nd_sage_mains/

Basically asking the question "Now that EW is coming to an end and the “spotlight” on these jobs going with it and being shown on the two new jobs. What are you overall thoughts on them? Anyone can answer, but I’m mostly looking for responses of players that play them extensively and even into harder content (EX and up)"

[WaxSw]

As someone who has done what OP asks (Ex, Savage and Ultimate) as Sage my opinion is that the job feels like a bad joke from SE, something without any kind of care or thought behind it, but let me explain myself.

When we get a new job we have some expectations like the job having unique and developed mechanics, bringing something new to the table and in sage's case we were told that it would be a healer that uses it dps to heal and something for the healers that want a more offensive approach (by yoshi-p himself in Mr Happy's interview). We got none of that:

-Sage's Addersgall and its skills are a copy of Sch's Aetherflow, brings absolutely nothing new to the table and is not unique by any mean, same thing when talking about GCD heals.

-Eukrasia barely has any meaningful interaction with the kit, its a very underdeveloped mechanic.

-The dps-to-heal identity is only shown in 2 skills kardia and pneuma, its extremely underdeveloped and barely helps the job to differentiate from Sch

-Addersting is really bland and due to toxikon's nature it sees a very limited use in fights. Its one of the only job mechanics that I can remember that is more interesting in dungeons than anywhere else

-The dps rotation... Its a post shb healer rotation which is not sufficient for the content of the game let alone for a job that is supposed to appeal those who want a more offensive approach.

The job fails to develop a unique identity nor separate itself from Sch's shadow, the very few interesting things it has are all either on a 2m cd or barely used at all in general content. I think its a job that shows how SE is completely out of touch with healers because no dev with minimal healer experience would have greenlighted this.

And the worst part is that the job concept has potential to become something unique but I can't see SE using that potential. I sincerely hope that they prove me wrong in DT.

[GrayLowell]

I like SGE's mobility. I also enjoyed playing it in a duo with SCH.
Other than that, it gave me an incurable brainrot.

[SargeTheSeagull]

I've only done up to EX and one savage fight as sage. WaxSw basically nailed it. But i'll add this. Nocturnal sect was removed from AST to make way for sage. And instead of taking a handful of ideas from noct ast and putting those in sage, they made sage a copy/paste of SCH which really shows that either the devs ran out of time, had no ideas, didn't care, didn't try, or some combination of the above.

[ty_taurus]

I've only done up to EX and one savage fight as sage. WaxSw basically nailed it. But i'll add this. Nocturnal sect was removed from AST to make way for sage. And instead of taking a handful of ideas from noct ast and putting those in sage, they made sage a copy/paste of SCH which really shows that either the devs ran out of time, had no ideas, didn't care, didn't try, or some combination of the above.

From some of Yoshi P's interviews prior to Endwalker, it sounds to me like PVP Sage greater respresents his original description of the job. He mentioned how Sage would be able to apply a barrier effect to allies through DPS, and when the barrier was broken, you would gain a DPS resource. PVE Sage has no way of applying barriers through DPS actions, but PVP Sage does. Eurkrasian Dosis grants a barrier, and when that barrier breaks, you get a charge of Toxikon II as a free OGCD DPS attack independent of Toxikon which is otherwise a regular OGCD attack with a short cooldown and charges. If we look at Alphinaud's MSQ instance battle, Toxikon is OGCD there as well.

I think Sage was going to have something closer to what PVP offers, but something happened that made them pivot, possibly balance concerns. And rather than finding a healthy solution, they just replicated Scholar more than whatever the job already had. Which was a massive mistake.

[SargeTheSeagull]

From some of Yoshi P's interviews prior to Endwalker, it sounds to me like PVP Sage greater respresents his original description of the job. He mentioned how Sage would be able to apply a barrier effect to allies through DPS, and when the barrier was broken, you would gain a DPS resource. PVE Sage has no way of applying barriers through DPS actions, but PVP Sage does. Eurkrasian Dosis grants a barrier, and when that barrier breaks, you get a charge of Toxikon II as a free OGCD DPS attack independent of Toxikon which is otherwise a regular OGCD attack with a short cooldown and charges. If we look at Alphinaud's MSQ instance battle, Toxikon is OGCD there as well.

I think Sage was going to have something closer to what PVP offers, but something happened that made them pivot, possibly balance concerns. And rather than finding a healthy solution, they just replicated Scholar more than whatever the job already had. Which was a massive mistake.

Insert meme of guy holding his chin while holding a cup with this foot going "hmmmm" here

[Renathras]

From some of Yoshi P's interviews prior to Endwalker, it sounds to me like PVP Sage greater respresents his original description of the job. He mentioned how Sage would be able to apply a barrier effect to allies through DPS, and when the barrier was broken, you would gain a DPS resource. PVE Sage has no way of applying barriers through DPS actions, but PVP Sage does. Eurkrasian Dosis grants a barrier, and when that barrier breaks, you get a charge of Toxikon II as a free OGCD DPS attack independent of Toxikon which is otherwise a regular OGCD attack with a short cooldown and charges. If we look at Alphinaud's MSQ instance battle, Toxikon is OGCD there as well.

I think Sage was going to have something closer to what PVP offers, but something happened that made them pivot, possibly balance concerns. And rather than finding a healthy solution, they just replicated Scholar more than whatever the job already had. Which was a massive mistake.

I'd never seen it presented that way before, but I could see it.

It does seem like late in the development cycle, they decided to make a sharp turn from what they were initially pitching it as. SGE isn't the only example - I remember watching the Media Tour of SMN and it showing that you were using Enkindle 2x during Bahamut (like ShB), but at some point, they decided against that and changed it.

I'm not sure the why of those changes, but I would believe there's something to what you're saying. The clues are there to make a compelling argument, anyway.

[Renathras]

What is interesting to me, in that Reddit thread, especially since it's FFXIVDiscussion (not the mainsub itself), is how many people are happy with SGE. FFXIVDiscussion, when talking healers, tends to be a "-lite" version of here with most of the people agreeing with you and the others here, just more subdued and a bit more...balanced?...not sure the right word for it, but you get the idea; a toned down version of here.

But in that thread...the vast majority of posts seem to be really happy with SGE. Some wish it was a little more DPS focused, but are praising it at the same time, and many are outright praising it with no caveats. RPR, oddly enough, seems to be getting the (slightly) more mixed reception, but FFXIVDiscussion seems to actually like SGE a lot. I was not expecting that.

[IDontPetLalas]

You have a interesting way of evaluating "happiness"

Check out the highest voted post. at 111 up-votes, it out-weighs all of what I would consider as clearly positive vote (e.g. I love sage, sage is 10/10, buttery smooth)

"Sage feels like it should have a more robust DPS kit and a different function for kardia. I don't really feel the job's core idea much at all - it heals when I DPS but my DPS kit is extremely limited and I'm always DPSing so it just feels like a regen in practice. There's no DPS move I have to save or think about, I just pop them off cool down

It's stylish though. Haima and snap shielding are fun and having to activate eukrasia tickle my brain."

When I look at this one, it doesn't come off as "happy". I can also find others which are more negative in tone.

Agreed, there are also positive ones , looking at them quickly I found three that totalled up to about 75.

So a quick review would tell me that it's not so much a "so many people are happy" but that it's a mixed bag. Yes, some people do like Sage, and some really like Sage, but a significant amount, possibly a majority, have issues with Sage. It's not what they expected, they may like some aspects, however they want to changes.

[Connor]

Frankly I can see both sides of the argument about Sage.

It does feel like they totally baited players by telling them it would be some ‘offensive-oriented healer’ that ‘heals through damage’, then it came out and it’s just Scholar again lol. It barely differentiates itself from the other healers and Kardia is just an invisible fairy less abilities. That’s not going into things like making Toxicon II a dps-loss but also making it pretty much the only heal-dps interaction the job has. Hell, White Mage is arguably more of an ‘offensive healer that heals through damage’ with Lily/Misery management and alignment.

On the other hand though, anytime SE talked about Sage before release, I always assumed it came with the caveat of ‘offensive healer… in the content of ffxiv ’. Which, while ultimately disappointing, makes how it actually came out start to make a sad amount of sense.

Personally I feel like the fact they made so little effort to differentiate it from Scholar hurts Sage a lot. I can honestly forsee them creating another ‘Heavensward Bard/Machinist’ style buff war in future. They’re so extremely similar that basically any kind of individuality puts one ahead of the other, so the devs will have to spend the entire expansion constantly rebalancing them throughout to try and stop them constantly overtaking each other.