How many 1-button enjoyers are there?

[OgruMogru]

I'll tell you what the actual culprit of the balance meta was: It was SE needlessly changing Balance (And bole) to 20%, case in point, notice my shift in opinion between above circa 2019 and below which was just before patch 3.4:



AST was 'fine' by 3.2-3.3, it just needed adjustments to get Noct to be competitive with SCH ( https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post3857974 ) and people to finally get over how much of a dumpster fire it was previously in 3.0.

Instead SE pulled the pin and wildly overtuned balance. Even Bole was a bonafide DPS gain in the right situation. 20% was absolute madness. It's no wonder people stuck to it like moths around a lamp.

God that 20% buff was such a disgusting bribe lmaooooo absolute madness x-x

[Rithy255]

Healers don't need 1, 2, 3 they need more procs, dot's more nuance in gameplay with stuff like whm having long cast times again and astro having interesting cards

[IDontPetLalas]

Healers don't need 1, 2, 3 they need more procs, dot's more nuance in gameplay with stuff like whm having long cast times again and astro having interesting cards

You posted that in another thread already. In the case of AST, while there could be some AST that agree with that, first of all you'd have to explain what "having interesting cards" even means. If it means a variety of types of buffs (MP, crit, etc, skill speed, spell speed, damage)- then- no thanks - as a number of people have already pointed out there are some potential disadvantages to that approach. That also does not help AST in any way in soloing content. I could go on, but the point is that a simple " interesting cards" isn't sufficient.

[Rithy255]

You posted that in another thread already. In the case of AST, while there could be some AST that agree with that, first of all you'd have to explain what "having interesting cards" even means. If it means a variety of types of buffs (MP, crit, etc, skill speed, spell speed, damage)- then- no thanks - as a number of people have already pointed out there are some potential disadvantages to that approach. That also does not help AST in any way in soloing content. I could go on, but the point is that a simple " interesting cards" isn't sufficient.

Ast cards shouldn't *just* be flat damage numbers depending on range or melee jobs.

I can see two approaches to "cards" one would be to give out Crit, Skill/spell and damage (not MP) which obviously skill/speed speed buffs don't work instead of how burst functions right now and it's currently really bad for certain jobs which can make them out of synch, so to a degree I'd be more apprehensive about that sort of "buff"

You could make cards based on Job categories (MDPS, Tanks, RDPS, CasterDPS, Healer, given that healer and tanks would likely have a stronger buff on that particular card for example), so that who you give the "right card" is a bit more strict then just handing it off to the highest phys or ranged dps. Maybe that's a bad idea for high end astro's I don't know I'm no expert on the job so forgive me lol.

To be fair I'm not a big astro player currently (or healer in general anymore), But I think the current card system could be slightly more interesting, I think I didn't state my point properly though "more interesting cards" is a weak argument on why astro shouldn't get much in terms of dps rotation, I simply think that the job is already busy enough in terms of how the card "mini game" works out to be at least to me astro doesn't really need any more damage buttons, I'd also like their barrier sect back personally as it being took out for the "barrier/pure" healer split is kind of just meh...

I likely should have explained that I don't even think current astro needs more damage buttons, as cards are already give astro somewhat of a unique feel (to me) and that I'd like to see more card diveristy, but maybe that just isn't realistic in current design

[Zeastria]

Ast cards shouldn't *just* be flat damage numbers depending on range or melee jobs.

I can see two approaches to "cards" one would be to give out Crit, Skill/spell and damage (not MP) which obviously skill/speed speed buffs don't work instead of how burst functions right now and it's currently really bad for certain jobs which can make them out of synch, so to a degree I'd be more apprehensive about that sort of "buff"

You could make cards based on Job categories (MDPS, Tanks, RDPS, CasterDPS, Healer, given that healer and tanks would likely have a stronger buff on that particular card for example), so that who you give the "right card" is a bit more strict then just handing it off to the highest phys or ranged dps. Maybe that's a bad idea for high end astro's I don't know I'm no expert on the job so forgive me lol.

To be fair I'm not a big astro player currently (or healer in general anymore), But I think the current card system could be slightly more interesting, I think I didn't state my point properly though "more interesting cards" is a weak argument on why astro shouldn't get much in terms of dps rotation, I simply think that the job is already busy enough in terms of how the card "mini game" works out to be at least to me astro doesn't really need any more damage buttons, I'd also like their barrier sect back personally as it being took out for the "barrier/pure" healer split is kind of just meh...

I likely should have explained that I don't even think current astro needs more damage buttons, as cards are already give astro somewhat of a unique feel (to me) and that I'd like to see more card diveristy, but maybe that just isn't realistic in current design

I like the idea of "cards based on Jobs":

(BLUE card) Tank: gives MID + 6%dmg
(GREEN card)Heal: give MP recovery + 6%dmg
(RED card) DPS: Crit 5% + 6% dmg ( goes for both melee/ranged)

Then we rework [Minor Arcana] into a card deck too!
they will be AOE cards, play likes it does now..but will give AOE buff instead of dps/heal.
(Our Lord card can be changed to a dps button , not to lose that dps option ).

Buff like:
inc healing taken by x%.
Reduce damage taken by x%
maybe also movement speed buff..


Something need to be done with Astrodyne.
it the sole reason why astro opener/burst is so busy-

[Rithy255]

I like the idea of "cards based on Jobs":

(BLUE card) Tank: gives MID + 6%dmg
(GREEN card)Heal: give MP recovery + 6%dmg
(RED card) DPS: Crit 5% + 6% dmg ( goes for both melee/ranged)

Then we rework [Minor Arcana] into a card deck too!
they will be AOE cards, play likes it does now..but will give AOE buff instead of dps/heal.
(Our Lord card can be changed to a dps button , not to lose that dps option ).

Buff like:
inc healing taken by x%.
Reduce damage taken by x%
maybe also movement speed buff..


Something need to be done with Astrodyne.
it the sole reason why astro opener/burst is so busy-

I really agree with the Minor Arcana changes the current version just feels... frustrating? all you ever want is the damage card, I really like your changes of splitting it, That's the kind of astro changes that I'd want to see personally, I think movement speed would be nice to see on more jobs (obviously scholar's might feel a bit annoyed), But they could really get creative in what it can do other then just "useless heal and hope you get the dps card" (for the most part).

I'm really hoping SE gets the astro rework right, having Minor Arcana being more interesting might actually be the right way to go about keeping astros "support cards" intact without stepping on their dps buff cards.

[IDontPetLalas]

Ast cards shouldn't *just* be flat damage numbers depending on range or melee jobs.

I can see two approaches to "cards" one would be to give out Crit, Skill/spell and damage (not MP) which obviously skill/speed speed buffs don't work instead of how burst functions right now and it's currently really bad for certain jobs which can make them out of synch, so to a degree I'd be more apprehensive about that sort of "buff"

You could make cards based on Job categories (MDPS, Tanks, RDPS, CasterDPS, Healer, given that healer and tanks would likely have a stronger buff on that particular card for example), so that who you give the "right card" is a bit more strict then just handing it off to the highest phys or ranged dps. Maybe that's a bad idea for high end astro's I don't know I'm no expert on the job so forgive me lol.

To be fair I'm not a big astro player currently (or healer in general anymore), But I think the current card system could be slightly more interesting, I think I didn't state my point properly though "more interesting cards" is a weak argument on why astro shouldn't get much in terms of dps rotation, I simply think that the job is already busy enough in terms of how the card "mini game" works out to be at least to me astro doesn't really need any more damage buttons, I'd also like their barrier sect back personally as it being took out for the "barrier/pure" healer split is kind of just meh...

I likely should have explained that I don't even think current astro needs more damage buttons, as cards are already give astro somewhat of a unique feel (to me) and that I'd like to see more card diveristy, but maybe that just isn't realistic in current design

I could see where the job buffs (and astrodne) s Zeastria described below could be a good change.

That being said- as you admit yourself, you don't seem to recently play AST, or even any healer, so that you're looking at changes based upon recall, which seems rather difficult to evaluate. As a healer main I don't find that the card game mini-game is so challenging or busy that no additional damage buttons should be added. That would ignore that there are many different types of content as well as skill levels , and ASTs have a bloated number of healing skills but a lack of damage options for some content.

[Rithy255]

I could see where the job buffs (and astrodne) s Zeastria described below could be a good change.

That being said- as you admit yourself, you don't seem to recently play AST, or even any healer, so that you're looking at changes based upon recall, which seems rather difficult to evaluate. As a healer main I don't find that the card game mini-game is so challenging or busy that no additional damage buttons should be added. That would ignore that there are many different types of content as well as skill levels , and ASTs have a bloated number of healing skills but a lack of damage options for some content.

It's not like i've not played healers (in general) I have every class at 90 just right now the current design doesn't appeal to me at least as in healers, I'd say I actually lean on playing astro rather then any other healer currently in expert rouls but yeah that's not to say I take it into EXT or savage, I've been generally dissatisfied with tank changes aswell (or not even in normal raids usually) I'd say I'm more of a support player at heart. It's not to say I don't want more for healers and think all my input would be straight up bad I think it's good to get perspective from players who maybe just don't like the direction healer has been took in EW. (SHB arguably even had better healer design imo), it's also good to hear from current healer players and all that. I really wish healer would appeal to me as it's something I love in other games

But yeah I think the idea that astro "could" have more damage buttons is up to you really, I think it's fine with its current damage options and card buffs, but at the end of the day i don't think adding any extra damage buttons would hurt it to a degree aslong as it's nothing too major, I don't think the "card mini game" is challenging but it can be sort of busy to me but that's most likely just because I'm not as used to it as you.

I agree that astro is bloated in terms of healing, I think healers in general have bloated heal skills imo, but astro likely has the most bloat from my perspective, personally I'd prefer if healers had to gcd heal a bit more so that choosing between damage and healing would be a certain skill expression on healer, resource management being harder ect, instead of just doing both at the same time.

[IDontPetLalas]

It's not like i've not played healers (in general) I have every class at 90 just right now the current design doesn't appeal to me at least as in healers, I'd say I actually lean on playing astro rather then any other healer currently in expert rouls but yeah that's not to say I take it into EXT or savage, I've been generally dissatisfied with tank changes aswell (or not even in normal raids usually) I'd say I'm more of a support player at heart. It's not to say I don't want more for healers and think all my input would be straight up bad I think it's good to get perspective from players who maybe just don't like the direction healer has been took in EW. (SHB arguably even had better healer design imo), it's also good to hear from current healer players and all that. I really wish healer would appeal to me as it's something I love in other games

But yeah I think the idea that astro "could" have more damage buttons is up to you really, I think it's fine with its current damage options and card buffs, but at the end of the day i don't think adding any extra damage buttons would hurt it to a degree aslong as it's nothing too major, I don't think the "card mini game" is challenging but it can be sort of busy to me but that's most likely just because I'm not as used to it as you.

I agree that astro is bloated in terms of healing, I think healers in general have bloated heal skills imo, but astro likely has the most bloat from my perspective, personally I'd prefer if healers had to gcd heal a bit more so that choosing between damage and healing would be a certain skill expression on healer, resource management being harder ect, instead of just doing both at the same time.

Well, you shouldn't knock yourself, personally I find you have some very interesting feedback. I would want to know even if you disagreed with me , however it happens that i agree on a number of points - such as the card minigame being more busy work in some aspects (not surprising, it's been redone ), as well as what i would see as the number of heals relative to various encounter designs.

[ForsakenRoe]

I can see two approaches to "cards" one would be to give out Crit, Skill/spell and damage (not MP) which obviously skill/speed speed buffs don't work instead of how burst functions right now and it's currently really bad for certain jobs which can make them out of synch, so to a degree I'd be more apprehensive about that sort of "buff"

You could make cards based on Job categories (MDPS, Tanks, RDPS, CasterDPS, Healer, given that healer and tanks would likely have a stronger buff on that particular card for example), so that who you give the "right card" is a bit more strict then just handing it off to the highest phys or ranged dps. Maybe that's a bad idea for high end astro's I don't know I'm no expert on the job so forgive me lol.

There's not really enough ways to do the first option that would allow for it to work well, I think. Plus, Crit/DHit scaling causes issues constantly re: balancing expected outputs

However, I do agree with the second part, making it based on job role rather than this 'melee/ranged' split we currently have. It doesn't feel thematic like this, why is Bole, the protective one, a ranged card? Why is Arrow, the thing you fire from a bow, a melee one? So, a while back I wrote this thread basically echoing the sentiment. I would like to see the Minor and Major Arcana cards actually be properly linked. Why does Lord of Crowns deal damage, and Lady heal, when they're both the same suit, and also the same suit as the Spire (which is now flat damage, but used to be TP restore????)

Combust would probably have to go if all of the Minor Arcana changes I listed in that thread got in, but hey, I'm not entirely sure how many people actually 'like' Combust. I feel like it's kinda just... there. It's not exactly interesting, is it