IGN Brazil Asked Yoshida about 2 min meta

[Avoidy]

I recall some people with 180s buff timers asking for more standardization in ShB, but I have not seen anyone praising the system now that we have it. I think, for those few people who did ask for it at least, this was a genuine case of "you think you want it, but you don't." I wish the devs would just look at the situation and go "okay, we tried something new. There's been a lot of hate for it. Maybe it's not the hype-beast we thought it was." Instead they keep doubling down on things nobody likes. If it's not this interview, then it's that other interview where Yoshi's gushing about how the relic quests were soooooo successful, not because people enjoyed them, or because of the story, but simply because a lot of people got a relic. The questline basically handed them out for free. You can't use accomplishments as a metric, when the accomplishment is literally a freebie. But he did! And it was so gross to read.

You know it's bad when we can look at the viper trailer and know immediately how it's gonna play. They showed us its 123. They showed us what looked like its blue aura burst thing. So it'll probably use its 123 until about 60 seconds have passed, and then release a burst. If it's capable of saving up, it might hold until 2 minutes have passed instead. Enjoy your new job! And when lots of people level one to try it out, they'll call it a success because people engaged with it. This is the future going forward. If your job is even a little different, it'll get a "rework" until whatever unique aspects it had are gutted. God help ninja mains; if their job does anything even remotely similar to what Viper has planned, they might give it the healer treatment and just steal its skills and hand it to the newest kid on the block instead. Unless you're black mage, of course. BLM gets to stay fun forever, because apparently the lead dev plays it.

btw, there's another war/atrocity/genocide happening irl right now because shit's just hitting the fan everywhere these days, but auto-demolition's still on. Know why? Because they don't want you dropping the game after the .5 update, when they go into a lowkey maintenance mode until summer. Maybe in the past they could afford to be nice, but now they probably see people unsubbing left and right and they're clutching their pearls hoping they don't suffer the same fate as every other company right now that doesn't offer a necessary service. Economy's in the trash. Spending is down because people are uncertain about the future. Unless you're financially fortunate, you're probably dropping this no-update having game until the devs actually put some content into it, because 15 a month is 180 a year for an rp chatroom mmo and that could be used for literally anything else. if you're new and still getting a lot out of the game tho then why're you even reading this, go enjoy the game this isn't about you bro.

[Boblawblah]

I recall some people with 180s buff timers asking for more standardization in ShB, but I have not seen anyone praising the system now that we have it. I think, for those few people who did ask for it at least, this was a genuine case of "you think you want it, but you don't." I wish the devs would just look at the situation and go "okay, we tried something new. There's been a lot of hate for it. Maybe it's not the hype-beast we thought it was." Instead they keep doubling down on things nobody likes. If it's not this interview, then it's that other interview where Yoshi's gushing about how the relic quests were soooooo successful, not because people enjoyed them, or because of the story, but simply because a lot of people got a relic. The questline basically handed them out for free. You can't use accomplishments as a metric, when the accomplishment is literally a freebie. But he did! And it was so gross to read.

You know it's bad when we can look at the viper trailer and know immediately how it's gonna play. They showed us its 123. They showed us what looked like its blue aura burst thing. So it'll probably use its 123 until about 60 seconds have passed, and then release a burst. If it's capable of saving up, it might hold until 2 minutes have passed instead. Enjoy your new job! And when lots of people level one to try it out, they'll call it a success because people engaged with it. This is the future going forward. If your job is even a little different, it'll get a "rework" until whatever unique aspects it had are gutted. God help ninja mains; if their job does anything even remotely similar to what Viper has planned, they might give it the healer treatment and just steal its skills and hand it to the newest kid on the block instead. Unless you're black mage, of course. BLM gets to stay fun forever, because apparently the lead dev plays it.

btw, there's another war/atrocity/genocide happening irl right now because shit's just hitting the fan everywhere these days, but auto-demolition's still on. Know why? Because they don't want you dropping the game after the .5 update, when they go into a lowkey maintenance mode until summer. Maybe in the past they could afford to be nice, but now they probably see people unsubbing left and right and they're clutching their pearls hoping they don't suffer the same fate as every other company right now that doesn't offer a necessary service. Economy's in the trash. Spending is down because people are uncertain about the future. Unless you're financially fortunate, you're probably dropping this no-update having game until the devs actually put some content into it, because 15 a month is 180 a year for an rp chatroom mmo and that could be used for literally anything else. if you're new and still getting a lot out of the game tho then why're you even reading this, go enjoy the game this isn't about you bro.

You REALLY need to let go of that house.

[Deceptus]

When we asked to homogenize cooldowns, that didn't mean make all the tanks play the same and prune everyones abilities though

Same with healers. We all didn't want the AST DPS rotation without the benefits of having the cards to occupy downtime.

[MsQi]

When people ask to homogenize they are automatically wrong. Devs would be wrong for listening to idiots.

[Darkpaw]

-snip- .

Wow, okay lot to unpack here...

So yes we did go from one extreme to the other and completely missed the happy compromise somewhere in the middle. That's 100% true. We went from unsynced buffs to literally every job playing pretty similarly at least in terms of tempo. Definitely some gray area we missed that we could exist in. Hopefully they manage to course correct, and hopefully this feedback proves useful.

2nd: People need to chill on Viper, we know.. legitimately nothing. We won't know anything until the media tour embargo and the job action trailer. So... lets all settle down just a wee bit shall we?

3: you are conflating Corporate issues with Development issues. The Dev team is not responsible for the housing demo timer.. That's a corporate decision. The dev team can't implement it without corporate approval. Yoshi P is one board member not god. He has one vote not all of them, and some of us remain subbed for all sorts of reasons, but if you're struggling to stay subbed, then. Unsub wait for January for the .55 patch, or wait til next summer and come back in Dawntrail. It'll be okay.

[Raven2014]

I
People complain fights aren't as interesting as they used to be.

Yeah, and that's why I don't listen to THOSE people. Just because people complain doesn't mean they have a point. Say what you want about the classes/jobs, but the fight themselves are far harder and more interesting than what they used to be. I can even argue that the lower ceiling for class mastery is what afford them to make the fights themselves more complex. Carbuncle is the hardest first floor we ever had, Pandoma is the hardest second floor, phoenix made all the previous third floor looks like chumps, and the last floor of each tier this expansion are also the hardest we had since Alex (and maybe Shiva).

The difficulty simply had a shift, moving from class mastery into the fights themselves. Looking at the result, it's clear which are more popular with the community at large, and by that I don't mean the people who complain loudly.

[Darkpaw]

Yeah, and that's why I don't listen to THOSE people. Just because people complain doesn't mean they have a point. Say what you want about the classes/jobs, but the fight themselves are far harder and more interesting than what they used to be. I can even argue that the lower ceiling for class mastery is what afford them to make the fights themselves more complex. Carbuncle is the hardest first floor we ever had, Pandoma is the hardest second floor, phoenix made all the previous third floor looks like chumps, and the last floor of each tier this expansion are also the hardest we had since Alex (and maybe Shiva).

The difficulty simply had a shift, moving from class mastery into the fights themselves. Looking at the result, it's clear which are more popular with the community at large, and by that I don't mean the people who complain loudly.

But if the vocal minority is the only feedback given than it is the only feedback listened to. Fight design may have in some cases improved. It can be a mixed bag between EXs and Savages not every fight is a shining example of what you are describing though there are absolute gem fights. I won't argue that fact.

This becomes the issue that led to this extreme reaction in the implementation of the 2 minute meta. There is a middle ground it doesn't have to be this or that. We can have a bit of both. Job design can go back to where it was before the strict 60 second mini burst 120 second burst while maintaining the level of creativity and difficulty of fights such as Carby and Phoinix, and Panda. There are those who enjoy the job mastery side more than the fight mastery side and vice versa.

My point is that we can have both. If we stop going from one extreme or the other and find a middle ground.

[Raven2014]

But if the vocal minority is the only feedback given than it is the only feedback listened to.

Base on what evidence that can claim it was the "vocal minority" though? Because the "statistic" point to otherwise. HW is often looked back at these days with a rose-tinted glasses, but it was absolutely horrible. And guess what, it broke up static, it made people quit. Comparing to now where you have a much higher completion rate, it's very obvious what is in favor by the "actual" community. And it's easy to see why.


Also, even before you want to get into the whole who is the minor and who is the major, the bigger issue is just how people act. People love to complain when they dislike something. That in itself is not an issue. But when it couples with the fact that people who DO like things tend to ... not saying anything then you get a skew narrative. So who in the majority and who in the minority is kinda of a moot point, because the "vocal" part will always be overwhelmingly negative. I actually made a thread about this in the past pointing out that if people are happy with something, they need to say it out loud too, or at least step up to defend it when people with the opposite PoV attack them. This is not just about fight design, but you see it in other things as well.


Like take relic zones as another example. I could have sworn when Eureka and Borza were relevant, the sentiment was overwhelmingly negative: from forums, to reddit, to even ingame chat. I mean ... can you really blame the Dev-team for drawing the conclusion that relic zone were just something people didn't enjoy? Then because we don't have such a zone in this expansion, now I suddenly see so many positive posts about how awesome relic zones were. And I'm like ... where were these comments back then? Like I said it was the samething with HW, it was pretty much a **** show outside of the MSq, but these day I often see it talked in such reverence that made me wonder if they played a different HW then I did.

[OgruMogru]

Base on what evidence that can claim it was the "vocal minority" though? Because the "statistic" point to otherwise. HW is often looked back at these days with a rose-tinted glasses, but it was absolutely horrible. And guess what, it broke up static, it made people quit. Comparing to now where you have a much higher completion rate, it's very obvious what is in favor by the "actual" community. And it's easy to see why.

Imo the problems with HW came from lack of QoL like no PF and having to resort to using the /shout feature to advertise parties, waiting 5 min between pulls for cooldowns, having to physically go to the location of the raid entrance [I actually loved this personally] not the content itself or the way the classes were designed.

[Raven2014]

Imo the problems with HW came from lack of QoL like no PF and having to resort to using the /shout feature to advertise parties, waiting 5 min between pulls for cooldowns, having to physically go to the location of the raid entrance [I actually loved this personally] not the content itself or the way the classes were designed.

HW's problem stem for what the Dev was trying to do with the expansion. They decided to make a hard turn into the hardcore lane on almost every aspect, and lost a lot of players for it, it wasn't just about raid. Also, Coil was the same, and it didn't have the same issue so saying it's simply a QoL issue is a bit unfounded. Launched HW was a hot mess with a lot of questionable decision. The "prestine" look of HW people associate with these days are due to simply all the malcontent have been removed or straiten out.

People like to talk about META these days, but do you remember Abyssos at launched? How some job was excluded, and how toxic it was until the fights was nefted? HW's raiding was like that but at least time three. If you put HC on the left and casual on the right of the scale. Then HW is a hard turn to the left that was met with so much negative reaction from the playerbase that they decided to yeet it to the right, and stay that way through Stormblood and Shadow which the games also gain increased popularity. If anything, the savage design in EW seems to be an attempt to move the difficult back closer to the center lane in the savage fight.