Thread: Red mage 7.0 Wishlist

Originally Posted by Rychu

Yep, big ol problem of utility is that the developers value the utility more than the players do. Like with what Rongway responded to you with, the best utility Red Mage can receive is a personal shield. If you ever dip your toes into savage or ultimate you will very quickly realize how squishy Red Mage is compared to the other casters. This is two-fold because both Summoner and Black Mage have a personal shield ability that they can plan to use for those hard hitting attacks. Even with BIS by in Abyssos, I can dodge everything and only get by the required attacks and my healers would still have to baby me because my health pool was just so low.

I'll just give my thoughts here, but if I was to give RDM utility it would be in the form of a ogcd aoe heal, which in itself is very "weak" as a utility, but I understand why no RDM would want that under the idea that it would really cut out damage, also that healing isn't that useful in general (I personally wish they put more importance on healer healing, so healing utilities also actually help a lot more). That or some Shielding I just like the Idea that RDM is a utility focused caster other then rez just existing, but still able to output as much as it does which i think is personally fair.

I'm unsure how they can actually build upon current red mage with new skills? They're either going to give a bunch of pointless upgrades or more burst skills which to me just feels kind of lame if I'm honest.

(Just keep in mind this part isn't what I think should happen with current RDM) With the "more melee" or flexible part, this would be if RDM was designed today as a new job so This is 100% unrealistic and shouldn't happen, Just what I would have wanted out the job, but I'd like it if your "sword phase" wasn't actually apart of your major burst dps and was more of a slightly more better version of your normal magic, being able to hold in even more then current and being able to go to melee when you want to, maybe even having two combo paths lol? but again this would not be apart of your burst. But again yeah I don't think we should change the current RDM we got I know a lot of people love it (including myself), but i like swords and magic! a lot hence i play PLD.

Something I want to put forward here because it hasn't been communicated about much. Magick Barrier is really good in the ultimates. It isn't quite as weak as some have been eluding to in other threads. It also synergizes greatly with mantra leading to outright tanking mechanics to the face when both buffs are stacked together. DPS group mitigations are far more valuable then self mitigation in all 8 man content- there is less value to mitigating one's self when a group heal is going out for a given mechanic.You also seldomly ever will be replacing an individual barrier from a healer by popping self-mit. Red mage is relatively the same squish-wise as the healers and phys ranged overall. If ever you're going to be one shot from an aoe, a physranged is equally likely to be as well because the base mit percentage is not being used on the aoe attack.

Lets take for example Ancient Quaga, one of thordan's attacks from DSR. It will hit the group unmitigated for a total of 50k going out on each player. Magick barrier will knock 5k off of that for each player in the raid group, it is also going to make any and all shield mitigations being thrown out by healers to be 5% stronger. Basically Magick barrier is nothing to sneeze at.

Should that be a justification for lowering the DPS output of red mages by an indiscriminate number? (support tax) In my opinion, no.

Monk was offering a comparable amount of support via mantra and fient and it wasn't being taxed relative to the other melee at that time when doing the same content. Monks were infact better in DSR than samurai, who offered no group support at all. As mentioned briefly in the original post, the concept of support tax isn't necessarily a positive topic between the community and developer team. When suggesting new support options, and DPS options, we can't claim to understand the logic of a support tax because there isn't any descernable scale of measurement for how much a support move is worth in dps. If I had to theorycraft a reasonable time for us to receive support tax then I would say it should be after we receive another group mitigation move. Currently we are comparable, not a ton better, than other classes in terms of our support.

Red mage has room for both more support and damage moves. In my opinion it shouldn't be a give and take where you have to actively choose between the two during your rotation unless both are considered equally worth it and equally great to options offered from other classes.

Have us pump more dps while making magick barrier even stronger I say!

Originally Posted by Milkbeard

Pressing 1 button doesn't feel natural

Nothing feels natural until you get used to it. The dedicated buttons for VerFlare and VerHoly were removed and as far as I know:
1. It didn't cripple the ability to play the job for anyone used to the old buttons
2. It didn't become less complex
3. It didn't become less fun
4. It didn't become a SMN

Originally Posted by Erinellza

^ Please no. If people want combos to be 1 button, that's okay but make them OPTIONAL.

The great thing of condensing it to one button is it is automatically optional: You place 3 Riposte buttons in your bar and press a different button for each step. You can try in PvP right now!

Originally Posted by Deslyxic

Nothing feels natural until you get used to it. The dedicated buttons for VerFlare and VerHoly were removed and as far as I know:

The great thing of condensing it to one button is it is automatically optional: You place 3 Riposte buttons in your bar and press a different button for each step. You can try in PvP right now!

Yea that is true. As long as it is accompanied by more options such as this \/\/\/\/\/

Originally Posted by Rychu

Xenosys actually made a pretty good take on why he would prefer them to condense most job's 1-2-3 combo into one button. He proposes that the condensing of 3 buttons down to one button introduces 2 more buttons that they can use to add variety to the jobs. Maybe having 3 different combo buttons that all have their own 1-2-3 or 1-2 or 1-2-3-4 amount of buttons to press. I would be open to that change. If I was to add my flair I would like it if we get 3 buttons that all have their own combos that they still interact in some way. For example, lets say we have 3 different buttons that all have their own 1-2-3 combo. Pressing the 1 button twice, combos into one of the other 2 for a different 3rd combo finisher. Add a little spice to that filler rotation and boom fillers aren't so snooze fest anymore

Then its okay with me. But like other players have mentioned, PVP doesn't currently feel as good as PVE because of it. I have to do the multimapping of reposte to have fun on rdm in PVP. Also like I mentioned earlier, it conditions bad habits if you spend like 16 hours in pvp then go into raid night as rdm and end up riposting twice at 50/50 mana. (we've all done it atleast once)

But yea Deslyxic I agree completely with your sentiment. They condensed the spell finisher portion of the combo and it felt literally no different and opened things for new additions. Basically if you had verflare and verholy on your bar, you most likely replaced it with the new aoe moves veraero2 and verthunder2 this expansion.
It was a very intuitive change. It didn't simplify any thing to be honest. It just made verflare and verholy usable only when they were available, and had something in their place until then. I just hope if they were to do that with the sword combo they could do it in an equally intuitive way just like that. Does that makes sense? Like don't just condense, build upon the foundation and maybe have something in their place until we have the mana to use them.

If you really think about it, we only had to make space for 2 new button mappings this expansion. It was for engagement and magick barrier (some red mages just replaced displacement for engagement and there is absolutely nothing wrong about that). We gained 5 new abilities/spells but only had to make space for 1-2 actually new moves. I like this, and if we gain new abilities, stick with this trend. We don't need new buttons to press in order to enrich our rotation's complexity, this expansion proved that. More new buttons just leads to more clutter and power creep. MMOs tend to do that, 3 expansions of new buttons and then 4th expansion brings them back to only having to map 6 buttons. Lets just keep it at 6 but have it branch out while completing the rotation. Xeno made a good point about button condensing, he really takes a tank's perspective because they have a nasty habit of just adding more buttons to tanks while keeping them simple. Like paladin is the sillyiest, just make their spell phase and melee phase the same button mappings, they hardly have reason to use melee moves during requiescat, or holy spirit during fight or flight.

Edit: Gamers I haven't played paladin in a minute, did they fix that? Lol I just put on the job stone and saw fight or flight does a flat 20% damage increase. Well whatever you all got my point, right?