Tank mitigation should be balanced to dungeons

[Rithy255]

Dungeons should be letting tanks pull more, warrior shouldn't get aoe sustain (400 heal per hit not per enemy), make dark mind have some physical aspects, give dark knight some slow over time sustain.

I think that would honestly make tanking 10x more fun in dungeons, every dungeon shouldn't really restrict pulls as much as they do currently is the main issue.

[MikoRemi]

Dungeons should be letting tanks pull more, warrior shouldn't get aoe sustain (400 heal per hit not per enemy), make dark mind have some physical aspects, give dark knight some slow over time sustain.

I think that would honestly make tanking 10x more fun in dungeons, every dungeon shouldn't really restrict pulls as much as they do currently is the main issue.

Essentially agree other than the non AOE sustain on WAR. Might as well make Melee Bloodbath only heal per GCD, that'll make it real sad.

Rest though is quite fine.

[Rithy255]

Essentially agree other than the non AOE sustain on WAR. Might as well make Melee Bloodbath only heal per GCD, that'll make it real sad.

Rest though is quite fine.

AOE sustain on warrior just isn't fun IMO, fully healing yourself 4 times in a row in AOE cannot be balanced, unless we reduced the potency which then would make it bad for raids. I'd actually enjoy warrior in aoe more if it wasn't like that personally, Yeah again it's dungeons but dungeons shouldn't teach players that you can afk the tanks going to do all the healing in the pulls.
I hope you get where im coming from at least though, Like I can get why people might find it fun, but I think it takes too much from healers currently.

Bloodbath would actually make a interesting role action for tanks (aslong as it worked for drk too, as it doesn't work with magic attacks) as Bloodbath really isn't that strong potency wise, don't actually get why it's designed for melees now? like bloodbath makes way more sense as a tank tool.

[MikoRemi]

AOE sustain on warrior just isn't fun IMO, fully healing yourself 4 times in a row in AOE cannot be balanced, unless we reduced the potency which then would make it bad for raids. I'd actually enjoy warrior in aoe more if it wasn't like that personally, Yeah again it's dungeons but dungeons shouldn't teach players that you can afk the tanks going to do all the healing in the pulls.
I hope you get where im coming from at least though, Like I can get why people might find it fun, but I think it takes too much from healers currently.

Bloodbath would actually make a interesting role action for tanks (aslong as it worked for drk too, as it doesn't work with magic attacks) as Bloodbath really isn't that strong potency wise, don't actually get why it's designed for melees now? like bloodbath makes way more sense as a tank tool.

That's your opinion though. Having the sustain be useful in dungeons and raid settings whether it's from the AOE sustain or the barrier/mitigation potential, it's quite nice to have. It'd be a real shame to have it be touched, and there's far bigger things to touch really. Want to teach players not to AFK, there's been doom lately making the rounds since Fell Court of Troia since we moved away from the Bardam's Mettle puzzle boss style. Want to also not AFK, try content that's Extreme or higher and watch things get hellish if you do such a thing.
I can see where you're coming from but there's other ways to deal with it than harming a piece of kit. It's also just a difference of opinions at any rate, you don't like the sustain, I do, DRK is more for you then I suppose although unless that PLD status is old, maybe you prefer not as strong healing, fine by me but I got WAR for the big stuff. Some shifts include either adding some more elements to the combat design overall or giving something else to the other classes. Healer's should have that discussion on their threads, but I can say it's primarily their super boring "rotation" that's the bigger problem here. The healing is quite necessary for the actual hard content.

Bloodbath used to be a Warrior ability long long ago that was taken away and given to Melee's, which should get some good sustain since Second Wind is frankly near useless. Sure, you can maybe clutch survive one thing, but Bloodbath can do much much more. We don't need it now though, PLD has many forms of healing, WAR as well, GNB has a couple regens, and DRK could just use a reworked Blood Price. Melee and Tanks can enjoy the best of both worlds and I wouldn't want to take Bloodbath back from them, just give DRK something and maybe a tiny bit of help for GNB since that 25 second combo window is quite long unless you pop something before using it I suppose.

[Shurrikhan]

That's your opinion though. Having the sustain be useful in dungeons and raid settings whether it's from the AOE sustain or the barrier/mitigation potential, it's quite nice to have.

How is this relevant to what you're quoting, though? No one said that no tank should have AoE-scaled sustain. The problem is the procedure of that AoE sustain providing so great a degree of output that it devalues one's other tools.

TBN is still useful, largely necessary, and plenty fun in dungeons. Heart of Corundom is still useful, largely necessary, and plenty fun in dungeons. Holy Sheltron is still useful, largely necessary, and plenty fun in dungeons.. They don't need to be as busted as Bloodwhetting's output in AoE to be useful, largely necessary, and plenty fun in dungeons.

It'd be a real shame to have it be touched, and there's far bigger things to touch really.

Cue the whataboutisms. Let's hope they're at least relevant...

Want to teach players not to AFK, there's been doom lately making the rounds since Fell Court of Troia since we moved away from the Bardam's Mettle puzzle boss style.

A Doom that cannot be cleansed except through Esuna from failing to dodge provides no more tank gameplay that --you guessed it-- the Bardam's Mettle puzzle boss.

Want to also not AFK, try content that's Extreme or higher and watch things get hellish if you do such a thing.

Which is, as literally as can be... not a dungeon. The complaints are about dungeon gameplay. The thread is about dungeon gameplay. Dungeons. Not Extremes or higher. Dungeons.

I can see where you're coming from but there's other ways to deal with it than harming a piece of kit.

It is not "harming" a piece of kit to ask to return it to being interactive with the rest of the kit (such as by reverting it to its Shadowbringer's functionality, complete with the extra options and agency that entailed).

[MikoRemi]

snip.

Read what Rithy is saying, they're the one pointing out that WAR shouldn't have AoE healing, specifically with; "warrior shouldn't get aoe sustain (400 heal per hit not per enemy)". All because; "AOE sustain on warrior just isn't fun IMO". Hence why I said that's their opinion.

Nobody is saying TBN isn't useful, but the shield does much less to protect from a mob attack over sustain, shields are strongest with single deadly blows which aren't common in dungeons to say the least. Heart of Corundum is fine, the continuation combo could give some shielding itself so somewhere in that 25 second window you don't have to slam a mit or lose DPS, and PLD doesn't need it because they got Clemency/Holy Spirit/Holy Circle just to name a few other healing alternatives. I personally love WAR's healing and then PLD, while GNB doesn't quite heal enough to be comfortable but Superbolide can make up for it.

Is it really a whataboutism? I know you don't love to read other posts but we already have things like Dark Mind to touch let alone other things.

Welp, everyone loves to say Bloodwhetting solves everything including you, so that doesn't really answer much other than just trying to dodge with "no more tank gameplay".

And again, can skills be separated from dungeon or raid? Don't think so. Not to mention Lyth already brought up 8 man WAR solo runs which if I'm not mistaken, isn't a dungeon. But hey, crucify me specifically~.

Or we can just have a single target version that's particularly strong for what it should be, or choosing to use the partner version that's weaker but supportive, an element of choice if you will. No real need to revert something that's fine. A good revert was giving Energy Drain back to SCH back in SHB because removing that was a complete mistake.

[Oizen]

Essentially agree other than the non AOE sustain on WAR. Might as well make Melee Bloodbath only heal per GCD, that'll make it real sad.

Rest though is quite fine.

This is a bit disingenuous isnt it? Bloodbath heals based on damage done. As a melee, if you bloodbath a crowd of mobs, you're not really transformed into that much of a tank. The healing is very gradual, and beyond that it has a 20s cd because its not supposed to heal you all to max at once.

WAR might actually be more interesting if its healing was locked away behind its infuriate skills specifically while just spamming basic combos barely healed you at all. Would give the job way more decision making on where and when to use your fattest attacks if your healing scaled up and down with damage.