Tank mitigation should be balanced to dungeons

[MikoRemi]

I like the idea of having the other tanks join the party, and trying to find a way to make healers more entertaining and still doing their main job of healing, even if this is a tank thread at the end of the day but has to come up I guess.

Fair enough, with discussions like this I need to be specific here since this is for the game. Last I need is vague statements to muddy the conversation and potentially dilute points, but it is a different style sure.

I'm not the only one but I'm a more vocal speaker. I don't know anyone personally who engages in the forums and with what I've seen in the tank forums as is, I can see why. Us vs. Them is rampant, which is a shame but well see what happens in Dawntrail. If WAR gets a hit, it'll come back anyway. If it doesn't then it's just back to HW where it's still nice even at the start.

Back to the topic and others can join back in, I hope the other tanks can be happier too. I hate having other jobs be shafted so here's hoping the mitigation does get balanced, but it doesn't have to involve slapping around a job that does it well, but fixing the ones that need fixing. Maybe Dark Missionary can show up a little earlier since every other tank gets their raidwide defensive earlier than 70.

Cheers.

[Oizen]

I'm not the only one but I'm a more vocal speaker. I don't know anyone personally who engages in the forums and with what I've seen in the tank forums as is, I can see why. Us vs. Them is rampant, which is a shame but well see what happens in Dawntrail. If WAR gets a hit, it'll come back anyway. If it doesn't then it's just back to HW where it's still nice even at the start.
Cheers.

I think you're being a bit dramatic about this.

The only part of WAR's kit thats being discussed here is the healing, which only takes place after the fact, no one wants its damage nerfed (the only reason it wasnt picked mid EW).
Issue stem entire on its healing output towering over the other tanks and making healers feel irrelevant.

Bloodwhetting healing per gcd rather than per target wouldn't even be a have an impact on raids.

[MikoRemi]

I think you're being a bit dramatic about this.

The only part of WAR's kit thats being discussed here is the healing, which only takes place after the fact, no one wants its damage nerfed (the only reason it wasnt picked mid EW).
Issue stem entire on its healing output towering over the other tanks and making healers feel irrelevant.

Bloodwhetting healing per gcd rather than per target wouldn't even be a have an impact on raids.

It already won't save a WAR from things like EO's one shot mechanics or extremely heavy hitting nuke busters in general. At least the healing helps where it can like dungeons or in content like Eureka and Bozja.

Might as well make Bloodbath healing per GCD then so it equalizes out. That won't miff the melee dps. If you want to only stick with Bloodwhetting then yeah it's just WAR targeting which gets really annoying to see them being seen as the source of all woes. Make it per GCD and wow, we can heal maybe 8k or 11k if we use our infuriates, that won't just be a complete nuke to the face.

Also people apparently do want WAR's damage nerfed because somehow it does more than DRK even though it doesn't do anywhere close to DRK's ceiling and all the damage depends on a per fight basis which either generally or at a max potential, favors DRK. So I'm not being all that dramatic really. As I'll keep saying, only reason the healing output makes it tower over other tanks is obviously the others(other than PLD) lack it, and healers just need a rework in general. Unless you want to tell me they're happy with dia>glare>glare>glare all day.

[Oizen]

It already won't save a WAR from things like EO's one shot mechanics or extremely heavy hitting nuke busters in general.

Huh?
No tank is mitigating through Eureka Orthos's oneshot gimmicks. Nor would changing the ammount of hp recieved after the fact change anything about that. EO is terrible for tank solos.

And it already doesn't do that. Thats what stacking mitigations are for. DRKs aren't getting by on just TBN, You have Thrill of Battle, and your standard mits. I suggest using them?

I feel like you're just grasping at random things for the sake of trying to win an argument, so uh...have fun with that.

[MikoRemi]

I’ve had plenty of time to reflect on the Stormblood era, it wasn’t was glamorous as you and others love to make it out to be. I thought I missed stance dancing once upon a time or the overall party responsibility with role actions, but it was more of a mess that was countered by easy fights. I remember Suzaku being harder once, it actually wasn’t it was just the jobs.

Diminished and yet it’s going like a champ. Personal though, I get it.

They aren’t perfect with some jobs like Samurai with Kaiten, but they lowered the job difficulty and DPS while mechanics have gotten overall heftier in extreme and beyond, hence the bodycheck memes. It’s mostly evened out just gone about a different way. I’ve had to accept that over tike as well.

Being able to not get screwed over by a bad healer? Sure sounds like Man Mode to me with my juicy axe.

Personal though of course, if you don’t like it then that’s just a darn shame. But like BLM’s that can’t handle the rotation, they got SMN. Not everyone else wants to be lowered down in the tankard either so it’s a simple thing to reflect. Hope you’ll find your place in Eorzea~.

[Supersnow845]

They really need to remove endless stacks of free gap closers, plunge used to be one of DRK’s niches now of course to the surprise of nobody WAR has better plunge than actual plunge because WAR has to be the best at everything for some reason

This comes up often in the healer forums but do people actually enjoy playing classes that don’t have failstates, or the class plays itself for you what are you even doing, WAR not having a single downside to any of its skills is a big offender of this (though SGE, SMN and WHM are also notable offenders)

[Amenara]

I agree with everyone that the underlying issue is the levels in which every job, not even just tanks, learns skills is pretty messed up and needs to be looked at again. I think it honestly makes it harder to learn how to play a tank when you don't get your most important mitigation abilities until way later in the leveling process. At the very least, tanks should get a weaker version of them at lower levels in ARR and use traits to buff them at higher levels similar to what happens at level 82 so that newer tanks can learn how to use short CD mitigations earlier and have more time to practice and get better at it.

[MikoRemi]

I agree with everyone that the underlying issue is the levels in which every job, not even just tanks, learns skills is pretty messed up and needs to be looked at again. I think it honestly makes it harder to learn how to play a tank when you don't get your most important mitigation abilities until way later in the leveling process. At the very least, tanks should get a weaker version of them at lower levels in ARR and use traits to buff them at higher levels similar to what happens at level 82 so that newer tanks can learn how to use short CD mitigations earlier and have more time to practice and get better at it.

Not to mention things like generating gauge on certain jobs until really late(GNB cartridges in the 70’s, Beast Gauge at 74, etc.). This is sort of an issue with the majority of classes where they don’t really feel amazing until a certain level(Machinist is missing it’s 123 until Stormblood levels for example). It would also help newer players if they had just a wee bit more buttons at the beginning. Yes the early levels is good for learning the game slowly but those days when you get sub-50 content, everyone just feels bad haha.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

(Machinist is missing it’s 123 until Stormblood levels for example)

No it isn't. Split Shot, Slug Shot and Clean Shot are available at Lv1, Lv2 and Lv26 respectively. What you gain at Lv54, Lv60 and Lv64 respectively are the "Heated" versions. Clean Shot still combos are Heated Slug Shot at Lv60.

[MikoRemi]

No it isn't. Split Shot, Slug Shot and Clean Shot are available at Lv1, Lv2 and Lv26 respectively. What you gain at Lv54, Lv60 and Lv64 respectively are the "Heated" versions. Clean Shot still combos are Heated Slug Shot at Lv60.

I guess I should be more specific since you don't understand what I meant. Not having Heated Clean Shot around the HW levels really sucks. Have you tried POTD with it? It's really terrible to feel like you're missing something like that the entire time when the remaining two parts of your combo are upgraded. Most jobs in general got their entire chain going earlier. That's not even going into stuff like Hypercharge coming at lvl 30 but Heat Blast coming at lvl 35 if you want to get really specific.

The point I'm trying to make regardless, is there are some abilities that are locked way ahead that really don't feel good to be missing from the earlier kits. Stuff like Umbral Soul for BLM, The Blackest Night as well as Dark Missionary for DRK, Lilies in general for WHM, and so on. It wouldn't be that killer to move it up ahead since jobs would feel a little better, it's why some classes like MNK and RDM feel pretty fine at level 50, but things like BLM and DRK feel absolutely miserable until later levels.