2 minute meta: Rework or Remove?

[Ggwppino]

Again, though, Paladin could at the time literally could have been made fully competitive... by just being slightly buffed.

Heck, it still needed to be buffed twice more after its rehaul (6.4 and 6.5), so clearly just shuffling around when that damage was dealt was not enough.

Not when in the party you have 5 classes that buff ~4% of damage in which they go in stack where the more potency you vomit in that window and the more damage you do to the boss even reaching 20+% additional damage. without gcd potency 1000+ plus crit (statistic now too more significant than the others), you are not competitive. You really produce too much more damage during the phases where the buffs are activated, but because there are too many of them and therefore they become too significant for the dps check. And this in itself penalized him, then throw in the downtime phases where the boss is untargetable and the omelette is done.
It should have been heavily buffed.

If you remove the raid buffs from practically all the classes and give them to only a few and these are responsible due to their functioning to always keep up all the various buffs (raid and single target), the old pld can be always competitive, as can be all the classes that instead of having a mega burst every 2 minutes have a smaller one every 30 seconds, or perhaps others that work with dots, or others where the autoattack is a significant component of the damage, or for the classes that do incremental damage, or classes that do combo damage, or classes that do I don't know, other infinite possibilities. But no, everyone must respect the 2 minute meta. all jobs same with 15 seconds to vomit the big damage and then have all the rest filler.

Now, thematically, if I were to make just one of them a buff job, and knowing what I do of their history in this game (had I known nothing of how XIV planned to implement each or seen only their ability names across the multiple languages, I would likely have gone with making SCH the buffer instead, but w/e), yeah, I'd make AST the buffer over SCH. But...

At the same time... does Chain Stratagem harm SCH's identity through its inclusion? Is it mutually exclusive with some other, more "XIV SCH-like" action that SCH would/likely could otherwise have had? Does it harm AST's, WHM's, and SGE's by association? I am not convinced it does any of those things.

Well one has its core based on managing damage/healing with aetherflow, the other has a core based on buffing teammates. Who should be the buffer?
The fact Is that there are too many selfish classes that have given a buff to the entire party that, if it doesn't exist, literally changes nothing because the core absolutely doesn't take it into account.

Why would the mnk have a buff that buffs damage to everyone? Why doesn't he buff himself but the entire party? Given that its core doesn't suggest at all that the mnk is a class that provides support, but more of an ace to carry? But the same can be said for the rpr, the drg, the nin. But also to the rdm, the smn (since they introduced it as a personal raid buff and not the pet's) and the sch. They are all classes that buffing is not part of their core, it is not their essence, and I don't see why they should have it, especially if it limits the design of new jobs and reworks.

Agreed. As long as there's sufficient context for them without also obliging them.

Absolutely agree.
Take the sch with "Expedient": it is a skill that buffs the speed of other players. If this skill is not used it does not change anyone's life, if it is used it can simplify the movement of the players by giving them a little breathing room, perhaps even making them extremely optimize some GCDs for the casters.

A mana regen example: how many times does it happen that someone dies in a raid, the healer ress him and then maybe has difficulty keeping someone alive because has no longer mana. Mana regen it's a skill that helps the party, in this precisely case helps the healer not to drown. Its to be avoided, however, to design jobs in such a way that everyone at some point can't continue without this mana regen being used.

[Taranok]

Not when in the party you have 5 classes that buff ~4% of damage in which they go in stack where the more potency you vomit in that window and the more damage you do to the boss even reaching 20+% additional damage and without gcd from potency 1000+ plus crit (statistic now too more significant than the others), you are not competitive. You really produce too much more damage during the phases where the buffs are activated, but because there are too many of them and therefore they become too significant for the dps check. And this in itself penalized him, then throw in the downtime phases where the boss is untargetable and the omelette is done.
It should have been heavily buffed.

If you remove the raid buffs from practically all the classes and give them to only a few and these are responsible due to their functioning to always keep up all the various buffs (raid or single target), the old pld can be always competitive, as can be all the classes that instead of having a mega burst every 2 minutes have a smaller one every 30 seconds or perhaps others that work with dots or others where the autoattack is a significant component of the damage or for the classes that do incremental damage, or classes that do combo damage, or classes that do I don't know, other infinite possibilities. But no, everyone must respect the 2 minute meta. all jobs same with 15 seconds to vomit the big damage and then have all the rest filler.

Something also worth bringing up isn't just the raw amount of potency vomit you can get on classes during the 2m burst windows, but also things like boss downtime. If a boss jumps, a class like SMN which is timed via cooldowns primarily, gets a lot more resources, a lot more potential damage, back than a RDM who has their white/black mana shut down.

In the most extreme and egregious examples, a class can actually lose resources during boss downtime. Notable examples being BLM during aldezaal's legacy final boss, as well as BLM/DRG/MNK during E8S transition. These problems can also be seen with LB3, where a class like BLM can be forced out of their timers if they don't refresh them instantly before firing it, and be ready to refresh it instantly after.

That last example is kind of sidestepping the point of this conversation and what I'm bringing up, but this showcases that when you design classes in such an extreme way, things start to get very wonky when you do things like make the boss untargetable for a time. Some classes care a hell of a lot more than others, and the 2m meta makes this far more unforgiving.

This is what ultimately sunk PLD's design, as well as ruined SAM to a degree necessitating major potency buffs for SAM and a hasty rework for PLD. You can't take an over-time class into a fight like DSR where the boss is up for 30s, and then down for 30s, repeatedly in the meta you 2 are, rightfully, decrying.