Please make getting gear faster in Dawntrail

[MistakeNot]

Nobody actually needs BiS gear, and one normally can't even get it without first proving you don't need it.
So what's the hurry?

[Kikosho]

Threads like this never have anyone write down a timeline of how long they expect to get BiS for their jobs. Due to tomes, the earliest most jobs can get BiS is 6 weeks. A raid tier lasts around 8-9 months. How fast do people want to gear up, assuming you're diligently working towards it. Note that the main limiting factor right now is 1) weapon and 2) tomes.

At the start of 6.5, I had MNK, SAM, and SMN fully BiS with PLD & WAR a couple hunt trains away from being fully BiS as well.

[Nezerius]

Threads like this never have anyone write down a timeline of how long they expect to get BiS for their jobs. Due to tomes, the earliest most jobs can get BiS is 6 weeks. A raid tier lasts around 8-9 months. How fast do people want to gear up, assuming you're diligently working towards it. Note that the main limiting factor right now is 1) weapon and 2) tomes.

At the start of 6.5, I had MNK, SAM, and SMN fully BiS with PLD & WAR a couple hunt trains away from being fully BiS as well.

The time between the release and end of a raid tier shouldn't dictate how long it should take to obtain BiS for multiple jobs. For a good chunk of hardcore raiders (who are usually the ones chasing BiS), a raid tier generally doesn't last past the tier's odd numbered patch. Especially for the x.1/x.3 patches, where their focus will shift towards ultimate.
Your list, despite mentioning 5 jobs, can be boiled down the having finished two BiS sets (MNK/SAM/SMN), and one BiS set still needing shines/twines (PLD/WAR). This is mainly because of PLD/WAR having an identical BiS, as well as MNK/SAM having an almost identical BiS (different headpiece, two different melds). This all done over a period of roughly 16-17 weeks, which seems like a significant amount of time for 2-3 sets.

That said, SE did take steps into the right direction with Anabaseios, although there's still room for improvements when it comes to tomestones.

I recall reading something about JP throwing a hissy fit in ARR when relic weapons were on par or better than their contemporaries from 'savage' content. So CBU3 being CBU3 they overcorrected and gearing in general has stayed rigid.

I might be entirely wrong and tinfoiling but it would check out.

If this is about early ARR, it kinda made sense for them to have complained about relics. Back in the "Relic +1" days (before the rename to Zenith), the relic had the same iLvl as the weapons dropped in turn 5.
The difference being that one required defeating Titan HM + spending Mythology tomestones, while the other required defeating Twintania and being lucky enough for the weapon to drop.

[Kikosho]

The time between the release and end of a raid tier shouldn't dictate how long it should take to obtain BiS for multiple jobs. For a good chunk of hardcore raiders (who are usually the ones chasing BiS), a raid tier generally doesn't last past the tier's odd numbered patch. Especially for the x.1/x.3 patches, where their focus will shift towards ultimate.
Your list, despite mentioning 5 jobs, can be boiled down the having finished two BiS sets (MNK/SAM/SMN), and one BiS set still needing shines/twines (PLD/WAR). This is mainly because of PLD/WAR having an identical BiS, as well as MNK/SAM having an almost identical BiS (different headpiece, two different melds). This all done over a period of roughly 16-17 weeks, which seems like a significant amount of time for 2-3 sets.

That said, SE did take steps into the right direction with Anabaseios, although there's still room for improvements when it comes to tomestones.

So then what is the timeframe that people want to be able to get BiS? 1 job in a week or less so that you can do all jobs within an odd numbered patch cycle?

If this is about early ARR, it kinda made sense for them to have complained about relics. Back in the "Relic +1" days (before the rename to Zenith), the relic had the same iLvl as the weapons dropped in turn 5.
The difference being that one required defeating Titan HM + spending Mythology tomestones, while the other required defeating Twintania and being lucky enough for the weapon to drop.

It wasn't just JP players complaining, it was most of the raiding community in NA as well. Thanks to them, our relics are basically worthless for 90% of their lifespan. This is another reason it takes longer to get BiS. There isn't a weapon alternative cause people were a bunch of babies trying to ego trip.

[Nezerius]

So then what is the timeframe that people want to be able to get BiS? 1 job in a week or less so that you can do all jobs within an odd numbered patch cycle?

While I can't think of a specific timeframe, one way for SE to handle this is to greatly increase gear acquisition with the release of the odd numbered patch. Here's what they could do:

-Reduce the cost of Savage gear bought with the books gained from Savage floors.
-Add the Solvent (tomestone weapon augment item) to both the Nuts and the Alliance coin vendor. Currently only the Shine/Twine get added to these vendors with the odd numbered patch.
-Increase the iLvl of the Alliance Raid gear to match Savage/Augmented tomestone gear.
-Increase the weekly tome cap.

Just allow players to go wild for the second half of a raid tier, while also allowing the hardcore players aiming to clear the latest ultimate to be more flexible when it comes to which jobs to play during progression (or being able to swap mid-progression, if necessary).

[Mecia]

If this is about early ARR, it kinda made sense for them to have complained about relics. Back in the "Relic +1" days (before the rename to Zenith), the relic had the same iLvl as the weapons dropped in turn 5.
The difference being that one required defeating Titan HM + spending Mythology tomestones, while the other required defeating Twintania and being lucky enough for the weapon to drop.

I can understand the reasoning but as i said, i think they overcorrected. There could be middle ground.

[Ravenblade1979]

You just used the word "want". If it's a want, it's not something that has to be acquired at all let alone fast.

If you meant content that needs BiS, what is there besides Ultimate and maybe Criterion Savage? How many players are tackling that content using multiple roles instead of what they consider their main job?

The problem with the gear system is that outside the two examples above, BiS gear usually is pointless by the time you get it. You've already managed to clear the content trying to get it, and players planning week one clears for the next content release will be going straight to the new tomestones and crafted gear since they will have a higher item level.

BiS is nothing more than a goal with subjective value for players to chase to keep them subbed longer if they aren't interested in other content.

Agreed. BIS really is meant for high end raiders. Like I'm not even working on augmenting my comedy gear. I don't raid so no reason and with no new gear coming before 7.0. Less of a need.

Besides, will be replacing it anyways in dawntraio

[Averax]

I just want there to be catch up weapons that drop from the dungeons. So i don't have to fork over a small fortune to catch my item level up for the story every patch.

I play the game very seasonally these days. When there is a new patch or expansion, i play all the content for a couple weeks, then i go back on hiatus. I've been burned out of grinding for weeks to get gear since heavensward.

[Evewalker]

I run a lot of content in PF, often fresh/prog/clear parties so that I can help others get their first-time clears, even long after I've cleared the content. I do this regularly for EX, savage, and ultimate raids. I mention this because I think this is a valuable perspective to have from someone who helps keep content alive long-term. Over time, after the initial rush has died down and parties for new content have decreased dramatically, who's left to join parties and keep the scene populated? The players who are willing to stick it out long-term.

I think we really need to be able to gear up alt jobs quicker because I think playing alt jobs is one of the primary motivators to keep doing content after it's "current". I can flex to any role to play whatever job's needed, but I can't join a party on a job that I don't have gear on. If I'm helping a party that needs a healer, I can't flex because I'm undergeared. I can go buy a set of 640 gear for my healer jobs, but helping prog savage in PF at min ilvl is a dodgy proposition. Of course it's completely possible, and the tier was tuned to be done at 640, but realistically, the level of mitigation and damage required to clear savage at min ilvl is significantly higher than the average PF group is prepared for. If the group consists of 8 highly competent players, then certainly we can clear P12S at ilvl 640, but if I'm helping a random PF group that's not practical. So it would be nice if we could at least access catchup gear for alt jobs earlier, or more realistically make it easier to get savage/tome gear once we have cleared the tier or gotten a couple of clears.

One of the main appeals of this game is being able to play all jobs on one character, but when it comes to current high-end content, I can only actually play 1-2 roles in PF, maybe 3 as the tier goes on much later. Otherwise if I go in with bare crafted gear, I'll be locked out of most parties due to low ilvl and even if I can join, there's no guarantee my party will do enough to keep me alive via mitigation. If the concern is not to make it too easy to get gear initially on your main job, maybe we can reach some sort of compromise where upon achieving "Apotheosis Agria II" or "Apotheosis Agria III" (clearing the savage raid tier 5 or 10 times), the Mythos cost can be reduced? If it's necessary to make sure this can't be taken advantage of too early, the change can be delayed to the x.x5 patch, in this case x.45. But either way a means of getting gear on alt jobs quicker would be appreciated for PF helpers.

[Ravenblade1979]

Everyone wants their cake and to eat it too it seems. How's this. They dumb down the game so much that you hit one button it will auto complete everything and give you the BiS gear without putting in the work