Square Enix should retire the relic quests with Endwalker

[EgilTheStressedMage]

What a cool person you are, just saying that all and any complaints are invalid

You sure as hell are defending this company well, go at it champ ! You're doing great !

If they healed as hard as they defended SE I’d be at around seventy five clears of EX7 by now.

[VerdeLuck]

What a cool person you are, just saying that all and any complaints are invalid

You sure as hell are defending this company well, go at it champ ! You're doing great !

It's crazy how you keep reading things into my posts I don't even put in there.
I'd reccomend learning to read english before coming to the english forums btw.

[OdinelStarrei]

Just wait for them to get tired of this, this is the issue du jour on the forums right now.
A few weeks ago it was Eureka and pretending like the reception to un-nerfed Eureka wasn't overwhelmingly negative.
Then It was "Streamer said game is dying are we in trouble?", now it's relics, just wait for the MMO boomers to watch a new opinion video and find a new fight to yell on the forums about how "It used to be better, now it's so bad and everything is too easy to get, these kids today".
My personal guess is we're going to see "The jobs are too dumbed down, we need more moments of glory" and then it'll be just repeating that Lynx Kameli video ad nauseum and doggpiling/misrepresenting the posts of anyone who disagrees.

Isn't this just a bit disingenuous?

Can't people just naturally have complaints about things without it being an avalanche of lemmings following someone else? Are insults really needed?

No one told me to hate the current state of jobs, or that there was no exploration content. Unless you count SE by making those decisions, I guess. It reflected in my playtime ever since the MSQ was finished each patch.

Anyone who says the game's overall population is dying is really off-base, which is why it's really great that few people are saying that without context when you actually have a conversation with people instead of constructing strawmen to burn down. Certain subsections of the playerbase are dying and dynamics are shifting, which is expected in the grand scheme, it just sucks for those people who feel they are being left behind by either the company, or their friends, depending on myriad circumstances. But the general health of the game is fine for most, with the scale becoming more positive the less invested one is, as is typical with a live service game.

For someone who is calling out "misrepresentation" you seem quite willing to paint with some divisive, broad brushes, no?

[Nebelheim]

Just wait for them to get tired of this, this is the issue du jour on the forums right now.
A few weeks ago it was Eureka and pretending like the reception to un-nerfed Eureka wasn't overwhelmingly negative.
Then It was "Streamer said game is dying are we in trouble?", now it's relics, just wait for the MMO boomers to watch a new opinion video and find a new fight to yell on the forums about how "It used to be better, now it's so bad and everything is too easy to get, these kids today".
My personal guess is we're going to see "The jobs are too dumbed down, we need more moments of glory" and then it'll be just repeating that Lynx Kameli video ad nauseum and doggpiling/misrepresenting the posts of anyone who disagrees.

Now complaints are invalid and people aren't allowed to complain and should just leave the game. I guess we shouldn't ask for a grind or for job complexity to come back. Or that our complaints are copies of streamers or that we are parroting there opinions because we don't think for ourselves or share similar complaints to certain streamers. People are allowed to complain and it's because we still love the game were not complaining for the sake of complaining or parroting streamers/youtubers. You also probably shouldn't be insulting people for "not understanding English" if you want people to have respectful arguments/debates with you.

[RitsukoSonoda]

I think the problem we're running into is that some players are trying to find some sort of meaning to getting a relic when other players will never consider it more than a flashy item used for glamour that requires more effort to obtain than other weapons.


Which is false. There are many paths to completing the relic because there are many paths to earning Causality. Not everyone does the same content. Eventually those methods all converge into making the purchase of the items from the vendor but getting there will vary from one player to the next.


Yet that's exactly what you're asking SE to add for the relics - an artificially limiting way to obtain the next stage or completion of a weapon.

Why is it okay when SE artificially limits things but not okay when you choose to do it yourself?

For that matter, let's say SE does add an option so run some piece of content multiple times to get a dropped item and it takes 20 of those dropped items to purchase one of the items from the vendor that would otherwise cost 500 Causality.

Can you say in all honesty that you would choose the drop method when it's less efficient than running other content to get the Causality?


What are they there for other than another reason for players to repeat content to fill time between patches?

Casuality tomes really are just an illusion of choice. The reason being that they are handed out in large quantities by any piece of lv 90 content. There is no actual need to "farm" these tomes if you're doing other activities for other rewards. Most cases when doing so you end up capping those tomes and not noticing until that message starts popping up saying you can't carry any more. This is why a specific type player thinks it's the greatest thing in the world. They're basically being given a reward for doing nothing that used to take a commitment of time and some small amount of effort.

[Jojoya]

Tome already filled the niche of not wanting to deal with that but still keep up with the iLv progression. Why do we need another one? (a question not directed at you specifically) So what do we get in return after having this one piece of content ripped off from us? Oh, none? Lmao. So much for being labelled a "theme park MMO".

But relics haven't been taken from you. You're still able to get them.

It's still a theme park MMO. There are still a variety of rides to choose from.

There are still long grinds available to players. The relic weapons going forward will no longer one of them from the look of things.

What you quoted isn't a sign of a muddled vision. It's the sign of a changed vision. Their goals for the past are no longer their goals for the future.

It only seems muddled because the change is not one that you want. Unfortunately for those who preferred the relics to be long grinds, I don't think anyone is going to get SE to reconsider.

It's not like this is unprecedented in the gaming industry. WoW gave up on its own long grinds for legendaries years ago. I don't know if any MMORPG on the market today still has a long grind for fabled weapons anymore. You'd probably have to ask around on a generic gamer's forum for suggestions.

SE doesn't owe you any explanation if you don't have the time to play the content.

I'm struggling to understand the logic behind this, given that if a player only has 4 hours a week to play this game they really wouldn't be interested in any kind of progression system like savage or a relic grind. 4 hours a week doesn't even give you the time to show off your glam.

Nor do they owe you explanation for why relics are no longer a long grind.

You're struggling to understand the logic because you're looking at the weapons differently from how other players view them. They're fancy glamour items, not power progression. Glamours can be as much for personal satisfaction as for showing off to others.

It sounds like you're trying to get some sort of public validation from possessing a relic weapon. The honest truth is few people care what you have these days. They only care about what they have themselves. You can thank the global marketing machine subverting social media for that. What people have has become more important than what people do.

Just wait for them to get tired of this, this is the issue du jour on the forums right now.
A few weeks ago it was Eureka and pretending like the reception to un-nerfed Eureka wasn't overwhelmingly negative.
Then It was "Streamer said game is dying are we in trouble?", now it's relics, just wait for the MMO boomers to watch a new opinion video and find a new fight to yell on the forums about how "It used to be better, now it's so bad and everything is too easy to get, these kids today".
My personal guess is we're going to see "The jobs are too dumbed down, we need more moments of glory" and then it'll be just repeating that Lynx Kameli video ad nauseum and doggpiling/misrepresenting the posts of anyone who disagrees.

I do empathize with the players upset about the change to some degree. Gaming has changed and I can't say all the changes sit well with me. But I'm also a pragmatist. As things around me change, I know I'll have to adapt or move on. Things won't revert just because I want them to.

Empathy stops when people start talking like a game owes them validation. Do things because you find them fun, not because you're seeking admiration from others based on what you have.

Casuality tomes really are just an illusion of choice. The reason being that they are handed out in large quantities by any piece of lv 90 content. There is no actual need to "farm" these tomes if you're doing other activities for other rewards. Most cases when doing so you end up capping those tomes and not noticing until that message starts popping up saying you can't carry any more. This is why a specific type player thinks it's the greatest thing in the world. They're basically being given a reward for doing nothing that used to take a commitment of time and some small amount of effort.

They're not an illusion of choice. It very much depends on what the player normally does with their time. Not everyone at level cap spends all of their time on only roulettes (assuming the roulette will award Causuality) and level 90 content.

I spend about half my game time crafting. That doesn't earn me any Causality. The rest of my time gets split up in various ways, some which will earn Causality and some that won't.

For me, i have to make a choice of whether I will take time away from doing other things to focus on earning Causality. Then I had to decide if I'm going to use the Causality to buy more crafting materials or use them to upgrade a relic. Fortunately I've got plenty of gil so I can buy the materials and use the Causality for the relic.

How do I get the Causality? I do a lot of hunts but there's not always a hunt happening on the same data center and going cross data center for hunts is usually an exercise in futility. Sometimes I poke my head into Variant. If I'm on one of my Dynamis 90s, I keep an eye on the PF for parties doing first time completions for MSQ. Sometimes someone needs a level 90 dungeon or trial, sometimes it's older content that only nets Poetics.

I've got a lot of choices I sift through.

If someone's normal play is to only queue for Roulettes that reward Causality, then you're right. It's more illusion than actual choice because they don't have to change anything unless they want to earn the Causality faster.

[Turtledeluxe]

I was thinking why not offer a path where people can buy it with tomes and also create an alternative experience? I don't get why there can't be both aside from the fact it creates slightly more work for the dev team.

Or maybe introduce the exploratory zone method first and then the tome method later?

Do the average player actually do relic for the ilvl? I thought it was because of the way they look.

[Asari5]

tbh i wouldnt mind if they make a relic break for one expansion and instead making some primal weapons for the newer jobs

[Volgia]

Nor do they owe you explanation for why relics are no longer a long grind.

You're struggling to understand the logic because you're looking at the weapons differently from how other players view them. They're fancy glamour items, not power progression. Glamours can be as much for personal satisfaction as for showing off to others.

It sounds like you're trying to get some sort of public validation from possessing a relic weapon. The honest truth is few people care what you have these days. They only care about what they have themselves. You can thank the global marketing machine subverting social media for that. What people have has become more important than what people do.

I disagree, after all, during base game + 3 expansions they made the relic weapon as a goal for people who enjoy a good grind. If all of the sudden they decide to no longer make that content it does leave people in the air, and for what? For people who barely play the game to begin with? They have a right to ask why they cut this content out of the expansion.

You make it sound like this is just the way things are and we just gotta accept it. What they did was make the relic into the laziest content possible, removing any gameplay elements and instead exchanging it for watching cutscenes.

This idea that glamours and skins are both worthless and wanting to be entitled to them because people barely play confuses me. The journey to get your relic weapon was always the point of the relic, and this time we skipped the journey entirely to the reward.

[ForteNightshade]

Sure, I guess some people could decide to actively go out and farm variant dungeons, but that is an individual decision. I genuinely do not understand why this is so hard to understand. Being given a specific task - farm 50 FATES, clear DRN 5 times, clear Alliance Raids 4 times, obtain these specific times with GC currency or gil or 20,000 poetics, whatever the task is, it gives it meaning. You are obtaining a relic by doing a quest which then becomes an earned reward. It's a completely different thing to someone deciding, on their own, to give themselves their own individual head cannon journey to obtain their relic.

The vast majority of people are not spending their Causality tomes on anything so, when a new step releases, hey presto: you have your next relic step within a few minutes of the patch releasing. And then, if you are doing your roulettes or pvp (which you probably were going to do anyway), you can get another relic. And another. And another. There is no sense of achievement which this relic and it becomes no different to a standard tomestome weapon. Hell, the Comedy tomestome weapon is more of an earned reward, due to you having to do P12N X times and spend a limited tomestone currency on it.

This is quite literally me at the moment. And I barely played the game for two months. I essentially logged in to cap, maybe did one or two things throughout the week if at all, then went back to BG3 or other games. I finally bothered to do the latest Hildi just because why not dump my Causality on the highest step. It's devoid of even the slightest sense of achievement. They're just pretty sticks I may as well have bought off the Market Board or from a vendor.