Concerning the 2 new Jobs

[DragonHearthX]

It
One is a caster, the other is melee. It was one of the last things Yoshida commented on during the keynote.

um no. We are getting a melee dps AND a magic dps. I am talking about the melee dps branching off of the Rouge, another melee dps.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

um no. We are getting a melee dps AND a magic dps. I am talking about the melee dps branching off of the Rouge, another melee dps.

But they wouldn't even use similar skills, there's no point in having them branch off of the same class.

[DragonHearthX]

But they wouldn't even use similar skills, there's no point in having them branch off of the same class.

a pirate doesn't mug people?

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

a pirate doesn't mug people?

One whole skill? Wow, so useful to branch off of. Also, pirates didn't really mug people. They pillaged islands, took ships. A single person is a rather small target for pirates.



All rogue weaponskills are based on dual knives. They do not have any skills that would be used by corsair (if that's even the melee job, I'm still sceptical)

[Mikey_R]

a pirate doesn't mug people?

More that the new job isn't going to use 2 daggers and so the animations for the rogue wouldn't work. So, with new weapons and new animations, you might as well just make everything new and not bother branching.

[RitsukoSonoda]

More that the new job isn't going to use 2 daggers and so the animations for the rogue wouldn't work. So, with new weapons and new animations, you might as well just make everything new and not bother branching.

Well in the case of SMN and SCH, sure they used books but eventually the books separated into 2 types. If they'd gone forward with branching every base class into 2 jobs with different roles we might have seen things like lancer taking up a 1 handed pike and tower shield to be a templar filling the tank role, or a gladiator dropping the shield for a 2nd sword to be a DPS fighter job, etc...

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Well in the case of SMN and SCH, sure they used books but eventually the books separated into 2 types. If they'd gone forward with branching every base class into 2 jobs with different roles we might have seen things like lancer taking up a 1 handed pike and tower shield to be a templar filling the tank role, or a gladiator dropping the shield for a 2nd sword to be a DPS fighter job, etc...

The books are different because the weapon is the job. There are no acn books that can be used by sch, only smn.



As soon as you hit 30, when the jobs are unlocked, the weapons change, because that's how jobs function.



They did, however, use the same class skills. But no job skills were shared.

[Mikey_R]

Well in the case of SMN and SCH, sure they used books but eventually the books separated into 2 types. If they'd gone forward with branching every base class into 2 jobs with different roles we might have seen things like lancer taking up a 1 handed pike and tower shield to be a templar filling the tank role, or a gladiator dropping the shield for a 2nd sword to be a DPS fighter job, etc...

Except they wouldn't. A book is a book is a book, even now, the books are essentially the same, whether you call it a codex, tome or whatever. They also have the same animations for casting, drawing their weapon, idle stances, Vpose, Battle stance etc. The list goes on.

Jobs are essentially defined by their weapon, you don't often see different weapons for the jobs, but when you do (hammers on PLD for example), they still use the same animations, even if they make no sense.

So again, if they had a different weapon for a different job, they would have to make whole new animations, new icons to better reflect them and by that point, you have basically made a new job.

[Renathras]

Well in the case of SMN and SCH, sure they used books but eventually the books separated into 2 types. If they'd gone forward with branching every base class into 2 jobs with different roles we might have seen things like lancer taking up a 1 handed pike and tower shield to be a templar filling the tank role, or a gladiator dropping the shield for a 2nd sword to be a DPS fighter job, etc...

While I get your point, keep in mind casting animations exist and the two have different casting animations after Ruin 2/Physic. SCH's Broil animation and Adlo/Succor ones have them holding the book out in front and then either gesturing (attacks) or slamming the book shut (shields). SMN, on the other hand, with Ruin 3 kind of holds their book out and draws a circle in the air, and with Ruin 4, has their book hover out in front of them while they gesture with their arms. Same for a lot of the Primal attacks.

The Physic/Ruin 1 animation (book out in front, left arm bent and over the right shoulder) isn't used for anything else aside from SMN's new Ruin 2 as SCH's goes straight into the throwing the book forward and launching the magic orb. Maybe Bio 1 and Bio 2 (on low level SCH) use this same animation, though I'm not entirely sure anymore.

The point is, the spells that they didn't share, they got different animations for, but the spells they share, they could use the same animations.

Now, imagine SCH didn't have a book. It had a bell or something. Then the Physic/Ruin 1/Ruin 2/Bio 1/Bio 2 spell animations wouldn't work right. BUT, being cast animations, they'd still probably be vaguely functional (Cross-Class used the native Class's animation with the new Job's weapon, and you can still see this in Bozja where the Shell/Protect animations are WHM's which you can also see when on WHM casting Esuna holding the staff out to the side on cast as opposed to Cure/Medica/Regen where the staff is held aloft; note SCH casting Esuna uses the Physic animation).

...but now try doing this with attack animations. Like one with a double blade attack is going to look odd if one of those is a flintlock pistol...

.

Not saying it's impossible, but I think it would actually require more work and have situations that just look odd. Again, Cross-Class used to do this, but some classes/Jobs casting Cure 1 (that was Cross-Classable) looked very weird, and melee attacks would look particularly odd.

I dunno, I just don't see them ever doing it at this point, especially after saying they hated doing it so much before. They STILL haven't made SMN's Physic scale with INT, despite being a completely separate ability now (SCH only has Resurrect from Arcanist, everything else is listed under Job instead of Class on its Spells & Abilities page, and if you put SCH's Physic on your SMN bar, it's grayed out and vice versa.)

EDIT:

The books are different because the weapon is the job. There are no acn books that can be used by sch, only smn.

This is actually...not true.

All the way to level 50, there are ACN/SMN/SCH books. For example, the Embossed Book of Electrum (level 49 Alchemist recipe) lists "ACN SMN SCH". Though they shifted gears to the Tome/Codex model after that in all the endgame stuff, and this was also true at large - leveling in ARR, gear is just DoW, DoM, or GLD PLD MRD WAR (tank) stuff. It allowed SMN's Physic to not be totally worthless, too...sometimes. (I've heard rumor you can wear old ARR gear in PotD or Bozja since the way it scales stats means the MND gets scaled making Physic not worthless, but haven't tried it...though I kinda want to sometime...)

But yes, after that they made the split hard. They even do this with class vs Job in some weapons. Like WHM's Relic Weapon is "WHM", not "CNJ WHM".

[Shurrikhan]

Again, Cross-Class used to do this, but some classes/Jobs casting Cure 1 (that was Cross-Classable) looked very weird, and melee attacks would look particularly odd.

Iirc, Cross class weaponskill animations were actually unique to each weapon type. For instance, Fracture on MRD, PGL, ROG, GLD, and LNC were all different, tailored to each class. Not always the highest effort of animations, but oddities from sharing animations wasn't among their problems because, well, they literally didn't share animations; the equivalents just attempted to have a similar enough vibe/flair/visible intent.

All that being said, I gotta agree: making COR share a base class with NIN seems like a needless and excessive constraint.