Are <5.0 main villain> fanboys also supportive of <6.1-6.5 main villain>? *SPOILERS*

[WhiteArchmage]

what about Gaia, is it ok that she is just as guilty and culpable as emit or any other ascian and yet because she forgot all the people she murdered she is off the hook?
what about Fordola, just cause she had a sad backstory doesn't excuse her actions..
crap even Estinien was a crazed lunatic through the lancer quest line, but hey he was nice to that spoiled kid that got firewood once so all is forgiven i guess..

Gaia is not Loghrif, the Eden questline was all about that point. Gaia has the soul of Loghrif but she's her own person with her own wants and wishes and actions.
Fordola is still being punished. The Ala Mhigans outright said "I thank you for saving us, but I don't forgive you for for hunting us." And she herself is undergoing a redemption arc of feeling exactly how she hurt others and the grief she put them through. So, uh, congrats? The game and Fordola herself agree with you.
Estinien has been getting a crap-ton of character development and the people he needs to make ammends to (the dragons, and the WoL) he turned to defend them instead, so really he's a whole separate case.

[SannaR]

Are you somehow confusing Estinien with Foulques? I get that they're both Elezen, but I doubt most would call a guy who was slowly becoming corrupted by an outside force that happens to any Azure Dragoon that carries around the eye for a long enough time a villain. Vs a Duskwight who felt the way the lancer guild teaches people to be the wrong lessons to teach. Who also trying to get some form of revenge on Gridania as a whole cause of how they treat Duskwights.

[Cleretic]

Gaia is not Loghrif, the Eden questline was all about that point. Gaia has the soul of Loghrif but she's her own person with her own wants and wishes and actions.
Fordola is still being punished. The Ala Mhigans outright said "I thank you for saving us, but I don't forgive you for for hunting us." And she herself is undergoing a redemption arc of feeling exactly how she hurt others and the grief she put them through. So, uh, congrats? The game and Fordola herself agree with you.
Estinien has been getting a crap-ton of character development and the people he needs to make ammends to (the dragons, and the WoL) he turned to defend them instead, so really he's a whole separate case.

I'd actually point to Fordola as a great example of a redemption/atonement arc, because they REALLY have her walk it. With this sort of thing, I ask a question of 'what more could they have done to sell me on this', and with Fordola I genuinely don't think there's anything else they could've done both in terms of action and treatment. I have a similar view of Gaius, although it's a bit more conditional: I think they've done everything they could've done within the confines of the stories he's been in. If he were in parts of the game with more storytelling space and freedom it wouldn't be enough, but he's not.

Golbez is sort of in the same boat as Gaius: I don't know if what they've done with him is enough for me to believe his face turn, but I also know that he didn't exactly have the luxury of space for it. If/when he comes back I'd hope to see some 'Fordola in EW healer quests' work on him, where he's clearly doing the hard yards and going through an uphill battle.

(Also, his story even now is better than IV Golbez's, which is a game with far less excuses.)

[Absimiliard]

(Also, his story even now is better than IV Golbez's, which is a game with far less excuses.)

Have you played the DS port of FFIV or any variation of The After Years, out of curiosity? The former makes apparent several key aspects of Golbez's story that, while supposedly intended, were conspicuously absent from the original and all of its non-DS ports. The latter fills in even more blanks while also addressing the matter of seeing the rest of his redemption arc through.

I'm not going to say XIV's Golbez isn't more fleshed out by the time they're done with him, but I do think people are selling the original quite a bit short.

[Kranel_San]

You should play FF4 before making this comment.

I shouldn't need to play another game to state an opinion regarding a game I'm currently playing.

[thegreatonemal]

I shouldn't need to play another game to state an opinion regarding a game I'm currently playing.

Considering it would give you better context for the character and what to expect given the game you are playing, I'd recommend it. It was something you were already planning to do. You said you haven't played it yet.

[Cleretic]

I shouldn't need to play another game to state an opinion regarding a game I'm currently playing.

I mean if you're saying 'they butchered Golbez', that's a claim you can only make with authority if you've actually played the game Golbez is from.

I have played it, and I can tell you there's not much to butcher; Golbez is probably the worst FF villain among the ones with actual... y'know, characters. XIV's Golbez has actual agency and XIV Zeromus is more than a last-minute 'Space Flea From Nowhere' final boss, that puts them both above the originals.

Have you played the DS port of FFIV or any variation of The After Years, out of curiosity? The former makes apparent several key aspects of Golbez's story that, while supposedly intended, were conspicuously absent from the original and all of its non-DS ports. The latter fills in even more blanks while also addressing the matter of seeing the rest of his redemption arc through.

I'm not going to say XIV's Golbez isn't more fleshed out by the time they're done with him, but I do think people are selling the original quite a bit short.

Specifically, I played a few versions of FFIV in part, the one I actually completed was the pixel remaster last year. IV was never exactly a game that grabbed me. That's nice that Golbez gets more non-brainwashed scenes, but it doesn't really factor in for me; scenes added that long after the original don't really feel like they should be used to excuse it. Also, doesn't really solve the problem that he spends most of the game mind-controlled by a secret villain with even less characterization; technically speaking, the problem with FFIV's villains might not be that Golbez is underbaked, it's that Zemus is, since he's essentially the one we're fighting against the whole time.

I know the story of The After Years from reading a Let's Play of it at some point, but I don't count The After Years because it's bad and FFIV doesn't deserve being shackled with that.

[Aneshda]

Are Emet-Selch fanboys also supportive of Golbez? After all, they both only wanted salvation for their people and have labored for millenia to achieve it.

Since Golbez seems to be a part of Azem, yes 100% and even if he wouldn't be a part of Azem. I have a nack for Villains, I prefer them more as the Scions.

[Aneshda]

Hardcore Emet-Selch fanboys don't think of him as a villain.

He is a Villain.
If you had the Power that the 3 Unsundered had and if you lost your World, without knowing what the Heck happend, would you not try to get back what was lost?
12000 years is a damn long time, for suffering. Maybe those 3 could have made it, if Lahabrea and Emet would have stayed in the Shadows.

[Cilia]

Since Golbez seems to be a part of Azem, yes 100% and even if he wouldn't be a part of Azem. I have a nack for Villains, I prefer them more as the Scions.

Pretty sure people are talking about "Golbez" (Durante), not Contramemoria-era Golbez. They're two different people.

He is a Villain.
If you had the Power that the 3 Unsundered had and if you lost your World, without knowing what the Heck happend, would you not try to get back what was lost?
12000 years is a damn long time, for suffering. Maybe those 3 could have made it, if Lahabrea and Emet would have stayed in the Shadows.

Me, personally?

First I'd try to find out what and then why, so as to prevent it from happening again if at all possible. Going back to the old status quo would be completely meaningless if the same phenomenon just broke it again! ... but I would also recognize that going back to the old status quo is impossible no matter what you do, and so try to find a way forward.

Certainly not engage in a millennia-long genocidal campaign weakly excused by failings I engender in the new humanity! I mean, if you focus only on the bad - judge people at their worst - well, you've kind of already made up your mind, haven't you? Conversely if you look back on the past with rose-tinted goggles you'll never see, much less appreciate, the endless possibilities of the future...

Has that not been like, the core overarching message of the story since A Realm Reborn? Did I miss something somewhere?