Are <5.0 main villain> fanboys also supportive of <6.1-6.5 main villain>? *SPOILERS*

[Yuella]

Are Emet-Selch fanboys also supportive of Golbez? After all, they both only wanted salvation for their people and have labored for millenia to achieve it.

[Carin-Eri]

[Eisi]

Do you count as an Emet-Selch fanboy if you like him as a villain too? Cause that's I think most Emet fanboys.

I like Golbez. He's stupid, he's tragic, he's evil, but in the end he found the right path again cause Zero was willing to give him a chance in light of his past and failure and in light of herself too. I like Emet more, because he was more of a guy.

[Vencio]

Personally I will never understand this narrative regarding “redeemed” or “redeeming” villains that caused major havoc, beyond massive genocide & yet somehow they’re given some form of less punishable atonement.

Emet Selch, Golbez & any villain were truly despicable in my view & though we were given glimpses of their agenda & ideals still nonetheless it shouldn’t sway you to forgive them.

But of course we got the simpers that begs to object otherwise

[Eisi]

Personally I will never understand this narrative regarding “redeemed” or “redeeming” villains that caused major havoc, beyond massive genocide & yet somehow they’re given some form of less punishable atonement.

Emet Selch, Golbez & any villain were truly despicable in my view & though we were given glimpses of their agenda & ideals still nonetheless it shouldn’t sway you to forgive them.

But of course we got the simpers that begs to object otherwise

Do you think Zero is a Golbez simp?

[Vencio]

Perhaps “friend zoned”

[Cilia]

Do you count as an Emet-Selch fanboy if you like him as a villain too? Cause that's I think most Emet fanboys.

Hardcore Emet-Selch fanboys don't think of him as a villain.

[Cleretic]

There's definitely a venn diagram overlap between 'Emet-Selch fans that like him as a villain' and 'Emet-Selch fans that think he's actually correct/agreeable', as well as both being distinct crowds in and of themselves.

I have absolutely no idea how to figure out how big each crowd there actually is, because all of them have a tendency to be much louder than their actual size suggests, and they blend with each other to a huge degree.

[Denishia]

Emet hater(understatement) but Ardbert fangirl and while not a big XIV Golbez fan, I decided that yes, I do enjoy him both as an entertaining villain and am happy that he is starting the long process of redemption. And that he’s an even more failed Ardbert is part of the reason why. But also that his motivation and specific lines about Breaking the Wheel is pure Ishamael from Wheel of Time and far more sympathetic and palpable than the Ascians. Even the Durante as a shard of Zenos tease amuses me, as someone who isn’t a Zenos fan. So that’s my Venn Diagram.

[LilimoLimomo]

I'm not going to say that Emet-Selch wasn't bad and genocidal, but I'll just say that his case is complex.

WoL tells the entire tale to Venat. Tells her about Emet-Selch being a genocidal villain in the WoL's timeline. Emet-Selch doesn't seem to agree with the actions of the Emet-Selch the WoL is describing. Then Emet-Selch's memory is wiped.

Venat was the only one with any memory of the discussion of this "future history". And she chose to chart a course that would in no way disrupt that history, ensuring that every word of it became true without any deviation. She could have deviated from that path. She could have told Emet-Selch. She could have used different tactics. She chose not to. She chose a future where Emet-Selch becomes genocidal. And importantly, he becomes genocidal in response to Venat literally committing genocide on his people.

I would never say that Emet-Selch is blameless, but he is a compelling villain because his situation is one we can feel compassion for once we understand his perspective. If a villain split a person you loved into multiple new people, and you could only get your loved one back by getting rid of those new people, would you? That's a complex, morally ambiguous question. And that's why Emet-Selch is a good villain: because it's not outrageous to have different answers to this question.

But one thing that's certain is that you would never have to make that disturbing choice without a villain splitting your loved one in the first place. That's why I see Venat as the larger villain, and see her as bearing a certain amount of responsibility for Emet-Selch's actions down the road.

Golbez is also kind of sympathetic, but not to nearly the degree of Emet-Selch. A big part of that is that Golbez doesn't seek out alternative solutions, even when they present themselves. Emet-Selch literally can't save his people without destroying the new world that followed it, because these new people are made from chunks of the old people. But Golbez just wants to allow his people to re-enter the lifestream, and that doesn't require taking over the Source. All you have to do is go to the Source and die, as demonstrated by Rubicante and Cagnazzo. And more than that, there are plenty of folks in the Source who would willingly work towards accepting those from the 13th as refugees, or even trying to repair the 13th (as several folks were already trying to do). Golbez did not try to negotiate, or to gain aid, or to find any manner of peaceful solutions. And that's what makes him...shall we say...dumb compared to Emet-Selch.