Basic Economics

[Haraldsson]

First I would like to say that giving the players the power was the best decision.

Next, I just want to talk about some basic world economics that I would like to see in the game.
1- If an auction house is implemented, it should be nation specific (not an instant global store).

2- Nation specialization. For example, one nation has better resources for armor, another has tanning, a third has culinary. obviously not those exact examples, but you get the idea. I know FFXIV already has this to an extent, and I like it.

3- Trade boundaries. For example tariffs, quotas, price ceilings/floors. This will add a level to the market complexity, and make trade more fun. Plus SE can use these measures to fight inflation/deflation later in the game life.

I think this is something that should be used later in the game life (once there is a thriving market).

Many players stop playing games because the economy gets way out of control because of gill sellers, and bots.

I think these basic principals can help keep the economy, and make the market more fun, What do other players think about these ideas?

[kukurumei]

First I would like to say that giving the players the power was the best decision.

Next, I just want to talk about some basic world economics that I would like to see in the game.
1- If an auction house is implemented, it should be nation specific (not an instant global store).

2- Nation specialization. For example, one nation has better resources for armor, another has tanning, a third has culinary. obviously not those exact examples, but you get the idea. I know FFXIV already has this to an extent, and I like it.

3- Trade boundaries. For example tariffs, quotas, price ceilings/floors. This will add a level to the market complexity, and make trade more fun. Plus SE can use these measures to fight inflation/deflation later in the game life.

I think this is something that should be used later in the game life (once there is a thriving market).

Many players stop playing games because the economy gets way out of control because of gill sellers, and bots.

I think these basic principals can help keep the economy, and make the market more fun, What do other players think about these ideas?

All those exist well in FF11.

auction house tarriffs are different across nations, Craft guilds make specialized nations with their enchantment and lower material price, and regional shops appear disappear, etc,etc,etc.

And the convient blaming of RMT and bots is pointless at this point, they probably won't even be an issue since this game is turning into a ghost town.

The economy is just seriously wrong, despite the "fixes" when 90% of the goods are sold to NPC brought from NPC and market wards accounts for maybe 10-20% at most of the population.

Theoretically speaking if you really have an active population of 1000 on a server, why do you have only 20-40 retainers on the wards? Why isn't the rest of the population selling. The answer is something is broken.

[Haraldsson]

All those exist well in FF11.

auction house tarriffs are different across nations, Craft guilds make specialized nations with their enchantment and lower material price, and regional shops appear disappear, etc,etc,etc.

And the convient blaming of RMT and bots is pointless at this point, they probably won't even be an issue since this game is turning into a ghost town.

The economy is just seriously wrong, despite the "fixes" when 90% of the goods are sold to NPC brought from NPC and market wards accounts for maybe 10-20% at most of the population.

Theoretically speaking if you really have an active population of 1000 on a server, why do you have only 20-40 retainers on the wards? Why isn't the rest of the population selling. The answer is something is broken.

FF11: That's good to hear about the different things they implemented in FF11. They should expound on those previous experiences and bring them to FFXIV in the future.

Wards: As a crafter, I can say from my experience that the reason people don't sell is because people aren't buying. I believe this is simply because of a lack of players. 1000 players can equip themselves pretty quick. In fact 1000 is hardly a market at all. Once more people begin playing, the economy will pick up.

[kukurumei]

FF11: That's good to hear about the different things they implemented in FF11. They should expound on those previous experiences and bring them to FFXIV in the future.

Wards: As a crafter, I can say from my experience that the reason people don't sell is because people aren't buying. I believe this is simply because of a lack of players. 1000 players can equip themselves pretty quick. In fact 1000 is hardly a market at all. Once more people begin playing, the economy will pick up.

Then that's not an efficient economy. That would be a barter economy, or a welfare economy.

a active base of 1000 should theoretically have multiple trades per person. It should have more retainers, not less then the current population. Otherwise it would lead to stagnation.

Whether it be the lack of things to buy, the procedure which to buy, or the problem with the selling/buying mechanism, it's still broken.

It is somewhat confounding that you got loads and loads of item drop which are craftables, tradables, or usables, but none of that ever reaches the traders market.

If everything is going through the NPC, then for all it's "modernize" motto, it's back in the way way stone-age of MMO, when NPC was the end all to everyday life.

It could be the over abundant amounts of gil from leves, it could be the problem with lack of AH, it could be implementations of the craft system, it could be the worthlessness of equipment, it can even be that the player base are really ghosts.

It can be a combination of many things, but the cause is striking. You shouldn't have this situation.

There should always been more items for sales and by more people then the active population. Never less. Otherwise something is not working as it should for modern MMO economies. If there are 1000 people on the server, there should be 2000-3000 active accounts, if there are 20 people there should be 40 sellers, etc.

economics is simple in those respects. You want a growing economy, not the opposite.

[Cogs]

I could easily sell more shit on my retainers if SE allowed more than 10 things to be sold at a time. Im willing to bet that almost everyone feels the same.

[kukurumei]

I could easily sell more shit on my retainers if SE allowed more than 10 things to be sold at a time. Im willing to bet that almost everyone feels the same.

Most AHs in MMOs allow 10 or so items at once. There's more wrong here then just a simple number of retainers.

[Haraldsson]

One problem is that players can equip any item. Since it has been so difficult to find anything to buy in the past, players started buying the highest level equipment they could get; that way they wouldn't have to go through the nightmare of finding a sword for a long time.

However, like kukutumei said, there are many different issues that contribute to the current stagnant economy.

[Fieros]

Only thing that comes to mind after reading this thread is that you must be trying to sell undesireable goods.

[kukurumei]

Only thing that comes to mind after reading this thread is that you must be trying to sell undesireable goods.

then there is something wrong with the craft system, drop system, or other system.

There should be no such thing as an undesirable item. There is such a thing as a unprofitable good, which would get NPCed, but that just means it's chink the system.

So much stuff NPCed and not going to wards means there's not a chink, but a bleeding black hole.

It's a very simple rational, that explanations like that do nothing to explain why it should be, but why it shouldn't be. It's simply wrong from an economic point of view, of output that doesn't perform.

[Haraldsson]

Kukurumei has a valid point. There is something seriously wrong, and it needs to be fixed for this game to survive.

I propose we begin making a list of economic observations that are contributing to the problem, and hopefully we can get this problem identified so that SE can fix it.

1) Low population
2) difficult item search

What some other issues?