Very minor sage idea

[Shurrikhan]

That's why I feel the weight of Kardia healing should fall on MP costs instead of on DPS potency. If it's based on how much damage you deal, the healing either becomes an afterthought because you'll just do your optimal rotation anyway

That's not what we've tended to see from DPS-based healers in other games though. As long as there is sufficient control over (bankability in) the timing/dynamics of that damage, it's tended to be used around healing... just with no complete downtime / never any zero use case (if an MP-efficient CD would otherwise overcharge or a gauge spender overcap, it still gets used).

Again, I'm not advocating for a %damage-based or damage-potency-based Kardia under the existing kit. It'd basically just be as lackluster a regen as it is now except during Phlegma and AoE-damage based needing obvious constraints -- more work than advantage. But, if we're talking about changes large enough as reworked systems, it makes little sense not also to include in that scope revisions to SGE's offensive/non-curative tools.

[IceBlueNinja]

My apologies if I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here, but... Zoe, Physis, and Krasis have no synergy with just those 3 things. Both Zoe and Krasis technically affect only GCD heals. Holos on someone affected by Krasis will heal within the standard deviation of regular Holos on someone with no such healing received buffs, and Zoe even specifies that it is consumed by only spells (GCDs), not abilities (oGCDs). For Zoe and Krasis to have synergy, you'd need to use a healing GCD, like Pneuma or EuP/EuD, giving it an 80% larger heal.

Pnuema is a spell, a 600p AoE spell, making it the best bang for your buck (over the 420 AoE potency from EuP) you can get out of Zoe as long as you don't need the maximum eHP increase of a shield to survive the next incoming hit.

Yeah that is what I mean that physis/zoe/krasis gives E Prog and E diag and pneuma a nice 80% big heal but not the ogcd ones. Personally for me though pnemua feel niche since there is so much other ways sages can easily top off a party, simply pop like say kera+ixo or physis + kera and that does plenty ticks.

[ty_taurus]

That's not what we've tended to see from DPS-based healers in other games though. As long as there is sufficient control over (bankability in) the timing/dynamics of that damage, it's tended to be used around healing... just with no complete downtime / never any zero use case (if an MP-efficient CD would otherwise overcharge or a gauge spender overcap, it still gets used).

Again, I'm not advocating for a %damage-based or damage-potency-based Kardia under the existing kit. It'd basically just be as lackluster a regen as it is now except during Phlegma and AoE-damage based needing obvious constraints -- more work than advantage. But, if we're talking about changes large enough as reworked systems, it makes little sense not also to include in that scope revisions to SGE's offensive/non-curative tools.

Probably because in other examples of MMOs with DPS-based healers, damage actually is delivered to the party regularly and consistently. FFXIV's damage it far too spread out with massive gaps where no damage occurs from the casual side of content even to the extreme and savage levels of content. I want my gameplay to be consistent, not dependent on a boss hopefully sneezing on the party more than twice in 4 minutes. Sage's DPS kit were to be expanded to include ways of burst healing through burst DPS, and for that burst healing to be necessary for DPS moments, I feel like I'd just be Dosis spamming anyway and praying that someone makes a mistake so that I can cast literally anything else.

In that world, I'd probably have significantly more cases of accidentally rescuing people into AoEs and going "oops, misclick." just so I could use my DPS rotation.

[Renathras]

Well considering the brand new healer that was supposed to make everyone happy has already fallen to 3rd out of 4 and it’s only beating out the trash fire that is Astro not many people seem to agree

Under...what metric?

Lucky Bancho numbers have it firmly in the #2 spot in most regions, and in abacus stats on Thalia (as always, I use 24 mans to get a more general view of the playerbase), SGE is also consistently the #2 healer behind WHM in terms of use.

I haven't seen it in 3rd place in any general playerbase metric, and half the time high end parties drop a healer, they drop WHM for AST or go SCH/SGE or AST/SCH (abandoning WHM as well) for fully optimized speed runs. I don't think SGE being 3rd is accurate under most any metric...

[IceBlueNinja]

Under...what metric?

Lucky Bancho numbers have it firmly in the #2 spot in most regions, and in abacus stats on Thalia (as always, I use 24 mans to get a more general view of the playerbase), SGE is also consistently the #2 healer behind WHM in terms of use.

I haven't seen it in 3rd place in any general playerbase metric, and half the time high end parties drop a healer, they drop WHM for AST or go SCH/SGE or AST/SCH (abandoning WHM as well) for fully optimized speed runs. I don't think SGE being 3rd is accurate under most any metric...

He hates sage man he always will put it down even with inaccurate data, for on my server of aether 95% of the time I see whm/sge the most and very lil to no ast and schs. whm/sage seem more common on aether.

[Supersnow845]

He hates sage man he always will put it down even with inaccurate data, for on my server of aether 95% of the time I see whm/sge the most and very lil to no ast and schs. whm/sage seem more common on aether.

Ice blue ninja rises from the depths of the forums to tell people they can’t dislike SGE, do you just scour the forums say in day out looking for people who oppose SGE and then just call them out for it, news flash people don’t have to like SGE, also anecdotes aren’t evidence

As for the question of the person you replied to, SGE is firmly 3rd in JP useage for the last tiers in both savage and ultimate, JP savage is what the classes are balanced around and what square bases their design on, so the new class that functionally copied SCH can’t even beat SCH the tiers it was launched in, it’s second in NA and EU, regardless it’s not really much of an achievement, especially because even in EU and NA it’s not even close to WHM

[IceBlueNinja]

Ice blue ninja rises from the depths of the forums to tell people they can’t dislike SGE, do you just scour the forums say in day out looking for people who oppose SGE and then just call them out for it, news flash people don’t have to like SGE, also anecdotes aren’t evidence

As for the question of the person you replied to, SGE is firmly 3rd in JP useage for the last tiers in both savage and ultimate, JP savage is what the classes are balanced around and what square bases their design on, so the new class that functionally copied SCH can’t even beat SCH the tiers it was launched in, it’s second in NA and EU, regardless it’s not really much of an achievement, especially because even in EU and NA it’s not even close to WHM

news flash people dont have to like scholar and unlike you who have to post everyday 24 hours a week , I post 1 or 2 times and skip days cause I do not have time to watch a forum full someone like you that only have a mouth on the internet. Who care about jp? This is English forum I think or maybe I need to read it again, trying to be a scape goat by trying to use jp and eu to try back your pathetic evidence up just shows how igorant you are.

[Supersnow845]

news flash people dont have to like scholar and your more active on this forums that I ever am, I may say one or two things a day and you say like 10thousand so please look at yourself before you watch how much someone is posting thank you. Everytime a sage main like that person who mention leave sage as it is your the first big mouth to say something rude and snooty

And unlike you I don’t go around calling people out for disliking SCH, hell I don’t even like SCH, I don’t like any of the healers, that’s the entire problem right now

The last like 5 times I have had interaction with you it’s been a snarky aside to a 3rd person of the style of “ignore this guy he just hates SGE”, when have I ever said “ugh just ignore iceblueninja he is just a SGE simp” to a third person

If you don’t like me ragging on SGE ignore my comments, you are also welcome to either respond to or ignore my comments ragging on SCH WHM and AST I have plenty to say on all 4 piles of trash

[Renathras]

As for the question of the person you replied to, SGE is firmly 3rd in JP useage for the last tiers in both savage and ultimate, JP savage is what the classes are balanced around and what square bases their design on, so the new class that functionally copied SCH can’t even beat SCH the tiers it was launched in, it’s second in NA and EU, regardless it’s not really much of an achievement, especially because even in EU and NA it’s not even close to WHM

So to answer my question (the shun/silent treatment isn't mature, btw):

The Lucky Bancho numbers, limited to only the JP datacenter, ignoring OCE, EU, and NA (the bulk of the playerbase) under the odd "justification" that the classes "are balanced around" JP savage and...none of the rest of the game or other DCs, a position that likely has no source or official position?

I'll make no statements about what you do or don't like, but SGE is very firmly in the #2 spot overall in this game, behind only WHM. SCH isn't that far behind it - it's not a huge gap like AST - but SGE is still in the lead. Even in the JP Lucky Bancho numbers, where it's WHM >> SCH > SGE >>> AST, SCH and SGE were not super far apart. It was just the NA numbers/gap inverted or something.

"not much of an achievement" is highly subjective, especially when you're claiming it is an achievement for SCH in the JP datacenter ("achievement" here being "thing highly worth noting"). You can't upsell the one while downplaying the other.

.

WHM >>> SGE >= SCH >> AST is the overall situation.

Clearly, SGE is, in fact, making a lot of people happy...

[Supersnow845]

Ren I’m going to be honest I don’t want to talk to you, have you not noticed the concentrated effort I’m making to not reply to you, can you just give me the same treatment

I’m not going to get into why I don’t agree with your post (first and foremost being I never cast it as an achievement that SCH beats SGE in JP but whatever) I just don’t want to talk to you

Call me childish or dodging the question I really don’t care, we established we don’t like each other and we don’t agree with each other, I have left your threads alone since then

Can you stop bringing up 4 pages deep comments of mine to discuss (especially when half the time it’s just to critique my use of hyperbole); please I’m trying to be nice here