Jobs should gain their core rotations much earlier

[fulminating]

We’re seeing them move in this direction with things like the SMN rework. The problem being, the job is just not fun to play at all now instead of just at early levels.

I don't think summoner was that bad even at early levels, I was enjoying doing the zodiac relic stuff on it before 6.0 and haven't been able to face it since the rework. Both dots, pet actions, fester and bane broke up the ruin spam enough to feel engaging, even if dwt/ruin4/that stupid demi weren't there.

[AnnRam]

You gotta sync down and lost 90% of your skills/traits so the sprout who is actually a free trial can have the same experience than you 10 years ago in Sastasha and you gonna like it.

Also having your core rotation at early levels means less money for Square because you won't need the latest expansion.

[ChonkGoblinSuprem]

If You look at Reaper and its hardly like what it is at 90. Same with GNB, DNC doesn't even get partner until 60? It's super inconsistent at best with new design. You could also include sage? but healers have the same rotation from all levels...

I think think Summoners a case of a class that it's a basic design, that all was needed was ability upgrades for the most part after a certain point, which results it feeling similar at all levels. Which yeah I don't want for every job, it's fine for *some* jobs to be easy but old summoner players that actually enjoyed the job were the ones getting a bad deal here, It's good to have some easier jobs, but they should always be new ones instead of just making every job easy for every player... Not all Jobs should be designed to be easy for everyone. I hope SE makes a fair balance of difficulty for more jobs in the future despite current trends.

Do you even play this game? Dancer’s starting level is 60! Not even to mention that a healer’s “DPS rotation” is not how to consider a class whose primary job is healing, especially in lower level content like the dungeons in the Leveling Roulette.

[Brightamethyst]

also give drk TBN earlier, they really lack defensives in early game play, make it the level 50 skill or something

Right? Why on earth is Sheltron level 35 while Raw Intuition is 56 and HoS/TBN are 68/70?

[CidHeiral]

Also give GNB Fated Circle much earlier, please.

[Silverquick]

For SMN,

I think it could use some of this. It's actually not bad and fun to play once you get past around 86th level. But the levels prior to that are almost all just Ruin Spam or a spinoff thereof.

I think there is where it really needs a little more complexity is the pre-86th level portion. Once you get to 86th level then it does start to get a little more complex, still not nearly as much as it used to be, but at least it's more than just Ruin or Tri-Disaster spam of different names.

But it is honestly fine past 86th.

[ThaCa]

The constant extending of the range where you gain abilities and power creeping potency has made earlier parts of game a lot more miserable to play compared to what they were. Sure everything dies faster now, saving time in roulettes, but most jobs just aren't fun to play below level cap.

[Rithy255]

Do you even play this game? Dancer’s starting level is 60! Not even to mention that a healer’s “DPS rotation” is not how to consider a class whose primary job is healing, especially in lower level content like the dungeons in the Leveling Roulette.

Yes I play the game and have every job at 90, The point was new job designs don't have a lot of their core class abilities at lower levels and summoner is not a indication of change it's more of a exception to that rule, Paladin was also not changed to fit into level 50 content.

Core rotations and abilities shouldn't be missing at below level 60 even if the job starts at 60, because you get synched down a lot of the time, So it's still a issue for the class when you do get synched down are you're missing a lot of abilities.

My sage point has nothing to do with DPS rotations, I was just referring that it doesn't change a lot like summoner because it's a healer.

[Colt47]

They mostly are having issues with scaling jobs because they chose to go with a combo design that keeps adding things onto it. So as someone is leveling up they are supposed to be increasing the number of balls they are juggling and things should be getting steadily more interesting to run. The issue with the combo design is that it isn't about expanding how someone plays the game but rather making what someone does to interact with the game more challenging. Effectively, someone is getting nerfed the higher level they get because to net the proper damage or output at the higher level, someone has to juggle more controls than they did at a lower one. That's partially why DPS feels more fun than healers, because ultimately what is making something fun to play in this stripped down experience is just getting the big flashy payoff animation for a big combo.

Could you imagine if healing worked the same way as DPS? You'd have healers pulling their hair out trying to combo into the proper heal they need to do while rezzing Mc Poopy pants who threw himself off a ledge because he couldn't turn the other way when the boss is doing a gaze attack, all the while your tank who didn't mitigate decided to eat a double tank buster. Oh, and the other healer is probably trying to combo into his big heal as well, so now both healers are totally trying to figure out how to sync the big heal.

They really needed a different idea than the combo one. I'd much rather have a basic attack and utility skills so that they can make content fun for everyone and not just the DPS.

[MsMisato]

I don't think summoner is a good example because they really didn't change anything level/dungeon wise for summoner skills. in fact they removed a handful of buttons like miasma, bane and removed what fester actually did which was designed to originally which was spread the dots around to group mobs, removed of the carbuncle/summon skills you had control over, and summons were used based on the situation you were in. mass pulls bust out garuda egi and the aoe attack. need melee attack call out ifrit. Tank messed up send in ifrit to keep the boss of others until tank can be raised. I kind of missed that. summoner was quite useful in lower-level dungeons just no one wanted to take time to understand how it worked.