Garuda's Difficulty

[Taika]

I don't think anyone is arguing that primals shouldn't be hard, the issue is the learning curve: If it is accessable enough that players can eventually beat it after much trial and error, then the devs have done thier job well.

And that's exactly what the fight is: a learning process. You learn it phase by phase, first getting through AB, then learning what to do in phase 2, then learning how to deal with the clones. You master one step at the time until you'll eventually win the fight (and keep winning).

There have been people writing in this thread saying they've won the fight or are getting there. There are strategies posted on these very forums and videos posted on youtube. People are doing the fight and winning it.

Now if you would tell what kind of problems are you having in this fight, what kind of setup are you using, maybe even your party member's stats and / or parse results in said fight, people could maybe give you some advice.

[Vanguard319]

And that's exactly what the fight is: a learning process. You learn it phase by phase, first getting through AB, then learning what to do in phase 2, then learning how to deal with the clones. You master one step at the time until you'll eventually win the fight (and keep winning).

There have been people writing in this thread saying they've won the fight or are getting there. There are strategies posted on these very forums and videos posted on youtube. People are doing the fight and winning it.

Now if you would tell what kind of problems are you having in this fight, what kind of setup are you using, maybe even your party member's stats and / or parse results in said fight, people could maybe give you some advice.

Very well, our biggest problem are the plumes, we have the DDs on plume duty, same as anyone else, and we do very well at getting them down quick. However, people get hit by AoEs even when they are clearly behind the pillars, We also are getting overwhelmed by the final plume barrage at 50%. We're lucky if anyone other than the tank survives AB.

As I said before, our gear is reasonaly fine for the fight, and eveyone knows what they are supposed to do. So what pray tell is the fatal flaw?

[Kinseykinz]

Very well, our biggest problem are the plumes, we have the DDs on plume duty, same as anyone else, and we do very well at getting them down quick. However, people get hit by AoEs even when they are clearly behind the pillars, We also are getting overwhelmed by the final plume barrage at 50%. We're lucky if anyone other than the tank survives AB.

As I said before, our gear is reasonaly fine for the fight, and eveyone knows what they are supposed to do. So what pray tell is the fatal flaw?

Well are you getting to AB in under 5 mins? I ask b/c Garuda might be the one taking out your stacks...Plus, you deal with more 'waves' of plumes the longer the first stage lasts.

When we had trouble with this we changed our strat:

1. We now use 3 War's/1 Bard. They take plumes out fast and furious BUT also can keep the DD up on Garuda. (3/blms 1whm round out the rest of the group).

2. The 2 War/ 2Brd setup works as well, BUT the bards are VERY busy due to the nature of needing to keep songs up, the 'recast' timer on light shot and Rain of Death either requiring a combo (on a long timer for this battle) or 3000TP. War's need TP too for Steel Cyclone, BUT they can easily get that tp by bashing on Garuda between plume pops...which helps the BLM's hit that critical 40% HP before Astral Flow to skip phase 2btw.

3. A Bard with Battle Voice is SUPER helpful...not sure if you have a bard in the group or not.

4. Our group currently has a mix of gears ranging from single-triple melds. While in just about every other battle, I've been our Main Healer, in this one I end up being Bard and more recently BLM. My BLM with modest single meld gears rides red the majority of the battle...and We ARE meeting the DPS check to hit phase 2 now. So single melds are plausible, but they need to be the correct single melds for this fight...and you need to eat food etc.

Like I said earlier, we got past the hard stuff in the battle, now it's just a wee bit more practice and timing and we'll get our clear...I have no doubt on this. And when we get it, unlike the 'BLM burn'...which by the way wasn't exactly an 'easy button' either, we'll be able to teach other people in the ls who are ready for it...even if they are DRG or PLD...which is what is most important to me. Instead of saying 'BLM only'

[Vanguard319]

Well are you getting to AB in under 5 mins? I ask b/c Garuda might be the one taking out your stacks...Plus, you deal with more 'waves' of plumes the longer the first stage lasts.

When we had trouble with this we changed our strat:

1. We now use 3 War's/1 Bard. They take plumes out fast and furious BUT also can keep the DD up on Garuda. (3/blms 1whm round out the rest of the group).

2. The 2 War/ 2Brd setup works as well, BUT the bards are VERY busy due to the nature of needing to keep songs up, the 'recast' timer on light shot and Rain of Death either requiring a combo (on a long timer for this battle) or 3000TP. War's need TP too for Steel Cyclone, BUT they can easily get that tp by bashing on Garuda between plume pops...which helps the BLM's hit that critical 40% HP before Astral Flow to skip phase 2btw.

3. A Bard with Battle Voice is SUPER helpful...not sure if you have a bard in the group or not.

4. Our group currently has a mix of gears ranging from single-triple melds. While in just about every other battle, I've been our Main Healer, in this one I end up being Bard and more recently BLM. My BLM with modest single meld gears rides red the majority of the battle...and We ARE meeting the DPS check to hit phase 2 now. So single melds are plausible, but they need to be the correct single melds for this fight...and you need to eat food etc.

Like I said earlier, we got past the hard stuff in the battle, now it's just a wee bit more practice and timing and we'll get our clear...I have no doubt on this. And when we get it, unlike the 'BLM burn'...which by the way wasn't exactly an 'easy button' either, we'll be able to teach other people in the ls who are ready for it...even if they are DRG or PLD...which is what is most important to me. Instead of saying 'BLM only'

Our last run got Garuda down to 50% in ~5 minutes, problem that time was that we lost a war mid way through to D/C, and were wiped for 8k.

[Kinseykinz]

Our last run got Garuda down to 50% in ~5 minutes, problem that time was that we lost a war mid way through to D/C, and were wiped for 8k.

Then it sounds like you're getting close...just more practice...50% in 5 mins does still mean you'd have to survive phase 2, but parties do it. Although, it is easier to skip it if you have the DPS in the front...but either way, sounds like you're making forward progress.

[Lux_Rayna]

Very well, our biggest problem are the plumes, we have the DDs on plume duty, same as anyone else, and we do very well at getting them down quick. However, people get hit by AoEs even when they are clearly behind the pillars, We also are getting overwhelmed by the final plume barrage at 50%. We're lucky if anyone other than the tank survives AB.

As I said before, our gear is reasonaly fine for the fight, and eveyone knows what they are supposed to do. So what pray tell is the fatal flaw?

1) Ppl are dying because they don't get behind pillars fast enough. It's just like Ifrit, if you are a hair slow at reacting then you will die regardless of what you see on screen. This is because the dmg check is done before you see the animation play out. The first critical step is for ppl to not die. And not dying is a function of skill, so practice makes perfect.

2) My PT would always get overwhelmed by that final plume wave. Thats because your dps is not good enough. The fight is designed that way, the longer it goes on the more plumes she sends out. In other words if you don't do enough dps to force her into AB, she will kill you with a barrage of plumes no party can feasibly handle. The only way to dps fast enough, is again, skill. Everyone in the party has to be able to maximize their weapon skill use AND stay alive. It's not easy. You actually have to be quite good, and not walking around in trash gear.


The fatal flaw is just skill and practice. Basically it comes down to two things: Dying and dps. You shouldn't be dying, so the first step is to get everyone in the party to stay alive. They need to understand how to get to the rocks without being too slow..how to read the battle log, or do whatever it is they need to do to get behind a rock before the server does the dmg check. Its like Ifrit and cracks. Next is to maximize your dps. You can do this by changing up party setups, changing who is on plume duty, or just being better at your class/job. It usually comes down to being better. I stopped doing Garuda because I wasn't good enough to keep up enough dps. Thats a reality you have to accept with your group.

[Taika]

Very well, our biggest problem are the plumes, we have the DDs on plume duty, same as anyone else, and we do very well at getting them down quick. However, people get hit by AoEs even when they are clearly behind the pillars, We also are getting overwhelmed by the final plume barrage at 50%. We're lucky if anyone other than the tank survives AB.

How long does it take for you to get from the claim to AB? How many teleport moves does she do before AB? If you're getting more than 2 teleports and taking more than 3,5 minutes your problem might be your DPS on Garuda (too slow). If you only get 2 teleports and get to AB within 3,5 minutes from the claim, the problem is not killing the plumes fast enough.

As for getting hit by her moves even though you are behind pillars, I've never ever seen that happen. No one should get hit by her moves in phase 1 (well our tank sometimes does and that's not a problem). Can you post a video of this happening? I'm just curious to see it as I never have.

The last set of plumes is usually 2 or 3 normal sets in a row. We rarely if ever kill them all but if you've done well until that point, it's not a problem. As a BRD, I usually skip shooting the plumes at certain point and instead focus on preparing for AB (Sacred Prism + Stoneskin, BV song, cures if someone isn't full HP).

What kind of setup are you using? Do you have 2 or 3 people on plume duty (and on which jobs) and the others DPSing Garuda full time? Do your plume people also do dmg on Garuda? How's your accuracy, do people keep missing their weaponskills and getting resists on their spells?

[Krausus]

Very well, our biggest problem are the plumes, we have the DDs on plume duty, same as anyone else, and we do very well at getting them down quick. However, people get hit by AoEs even when they are clearly behind the pillars, We also are getting overwhelmed by the final plume barrage at 50%. We're lucky if anyone other than the tank survives AB.

As I said before, our gear is reasonaly fine for the fight, and eveyone knows what they are supposed to do. So what pray tell is the fatal flaw?

Uni the issue is we are not putting together win groups we are just throwing together whomever signs up and not worrying about classes, gear, or skill we are doing it for fun, if we just wanted to win then we would stack a group of our best players and do it, that's not what we have been going for we have been going for team building experience for future 24 man content.

PS: not sure if you are talking about Seraphim groups or not but just in case you are the above is the reason

[Elexia]

Yet first kill went to NA, its amazing people bring up latency in garuda fight, shows how clueless you are about the fight.

Remember: NA/EU players can't kill Ifrit or Garuda due to latency or Lag. Anyone you know who killed it that isn't Japanese simply just happens to live in Japan....yeah.

LATENCY IS. THE. MAIN. FACTOR. FOR CHRIST SAKE

How do you think i'm able to NOT GETTING HIT BY ANYTHING BECAUSE I'M ACTUALLY ABLE TO DODGE THE FIRE IN World of Warcraft?

Simply get better? I'm sorry but we're done with blaming latency on not being able to kill a primal since early 2011 when people realized "maybe I just need to get better."

Latency problems exist, as does Animation lag, but guess what? People use it as an excuse when they fail at their part of the fight.

Do you even know what the hell you're playing?

I'll be honest, only people who suck at dodging continue to blame latency. Do you blame latency when you can't dodge a Dodo burping or farting on you?

Uni the issue is we are not putting together win groups we are just throwing together whomever signs up and not worrying about classes, gear, or skill we are doing it for fun, if we just wanted to win then we would stack a group of our best players and do it, that's not what we have been going for we have been going for team building experience for future 24 man content.

PS: not sure if you are talking about Seraphim groups or not but just in case you are the above is the reason

^ This person knows how an MMO is. You can win even with going in for fun, however blaming latency is so late 2010 early 2011..it's time to admit when one is just simply not good at dodging.

[Risae]

Remember: NA/EU players can't kill Ifrit or Garuda due to latency or Lag. Anyone you know who killed it that isn't Japanese simply just happens to live in Japan....yeah.



Simply get better? I'm sorry but we're done with blaming latency on not being able to kill a primal since early 2011 when people realized "maybe I just need to get better."

Latency problems exist, as does Animation lag, but guess what? People use it as an excuse when they fail at their part of the fight.



I'll be honest, only people who suck at dodging continue to blame latency. Do you blame latency when you can't dodge a Dodo burping or farting on you?



^ This person knows how an MMO is. You can win even with going in for fun, however blaming latency is so late 2010 early 2011..it's time to admit when one is just simply not good at dodging.

Maybe i just need to get better? What? How the hell am i supposed to fight the boss AND latency?
Jesus.