PVP in this game isnt fun

[Malganis_L]

I think its isnt as bad per se as a more casual pvp experiance...
HOWEVER
the way the ranking ladder works right now contradicts the forced solo que, no communication, etc nature of CC
which pretty much cuts of newbies from getting into ranked and CC in general, as only very very few of them will have the patiants to deal with the constant demotivation of nearly reaching rankup,
only to lose all the progress over and over again.

a grind based ladder would be more fitting for the lower ranks and Elo rating for crystal (and maybe diamand for warmup)

[Reimmi]

Only thing i agree with is the success being tied to the rng of if you get the good or bad players on your team, at least up til crystal lol. is it really so much to ask for premade queueing for ranked instead of this garbage?

[Myon88]

Reminder that Lord of Verminion still exists.

Not only is it a 1v1 game so you never have to rely on teammates, by virtue of being an RTS, it has an astronomically high skill ceiling that gcd based combat will never reach. It's also a symmetrical game mode so it literally can't be unbalanced.

PvP in this game was already perfected when this mode came out in 3.1. Everything since then I just consider a nice little casual bonus that I play for fun.

[Elysium77]

You probly suck at it, things I’m not good at aren’t fun

[Oni_Akuma]

It's bullshit riddled with crowd control, 0 communication, can't play with friends, your progress is tied to the randomness of the idiots you match with, the latency is horrible, the balancing is fucked.

Just delete this and give us collectors a favour so we can skip this shit.

Well there is your problem there. "Us collectors" okay you might be gaming but you aren't playing. As a "Collector" you have almost Zero say on any suggestion because you or only goal is as you said is to "Collect". If that makes sense. Also, this pvp mode is the worst rework in the history of FFXIV and MMORPG history, since the the dawn of MMORPG Time around early 2000s. Saying otherwise would just confirm to us ElitistJerks and MMO vets that you have little to no knowledge on your finding or suggestions.

Net code is net code. It is hard coded and will never be fixed. There are tricks to use it in your favor. It is better than ARR 500ms latency issues thank god for that.

You're a collector? Then you have to play every bit of content in the game. That means there's gonna be shit you don't like. PvP is amazing in my opinion. There are issues sure, but it's so much better than it used to be and the devs make a real effort to make it good. If you have issues with Crowd Control, there are ways to counter that. The best way to learn the movesets of the different jobs is to hook someone up in Wolves' Den and ask them to explain everything while showcasing it in the dueling arena. The most important things to know are:

1. Recuperation
2. Guard
3. Purify
4. Field-Elixir or whatever it's called in English (isn't the Monk ability called "Elixir-Field"? Then it's probably not Field-Elixir )
5. Sprint
6. Samurai LB
7. Sage LB
8. Dragoon LB
9. Ninja LB
10. Miracle of Nature

Positioning and LoS are super important and can be learned in the arena as well. You need to pretty much play and understand every job in the game to get the maximum fun out of the mode imo, which you as a collector are super well suited for.

Okay I understand a little but as a veteran noticing most but not all of the changes between PvE and PvP since ARR during my times of subscribing and unsubscribing. This mode just like I quoted from the person above is the worst version of PvP ever. Period. The legends of old PvP left if that were to say something. Now I get you might retort by not knowing them and such. But let us put into perspective all the changes of the battle system until we get to our current PvP mode based off of "Overwatch".

ARR - Wonky Class Identity was there but lack of awe in battling. (Had Team Deathmatch mode called "The Fold")
H.W (Heavensward) - No Job Gauges yet, TP still in progress. All classes got new moves added to their core identity and this is where it begins to start flourishing. But there was some spark in PvP with changes. Era of many PvP players and toxicity. Beginning of the best Era. Beginning of Feast.
S.B (Stormblood) - Job Gauges introduced. I believe TP was remove early or late patches. Golden Age of PVP. PvE was the best it ever was with high learning curve on most classes. Actual MMORPG job identity. This was the epitome of the battle mechanics. If you had to reference anything. This was the most Perfect system with the net code + job identity in the history of the game. (Few exceptions that Sh.B and E.W fixed)
Sh.B (Shadowbringers) - Simplified PvP between AoE and Single target combos. Job gauge, counterplay A-B-C but no C -> A options. Because of only having a choice of 2 additional skills at one time. Good concept was looking forward to better PvP idea based off this balance. Highly balanced to some degree. Tanks were tanks, Healers were healers, and DPS were DPS.
E.W - Crystal Conflict (What is this Overwatch junk)?! Where is the counterplay? Why is everyone able to do so much damage and the job identity is removed, making everyone some DPS with with "some" identity.

Most skills now operate on multiples 2s, 5s & 10s. Concept of having skills last 1/12th a minute when before things lasted 6s. 1/10th of a minute and skills were based around that.

1. Recuperation. (Why? Why do Melees have to use MP to heal themselves? Since when has that ever ever been a thing? Unless you are a Paladin that makes 100% sense to have a skill to heal yourself.)
2. Guard - Good mechanic. But not fun mechanic. Should be reworked but that would involve full rework of entire structure of C.C pvp skills.
3. Purify - Useless. Fetterward was a better Purify. This is just a button to cleanse C.C for 5s. 1/12th a minute feeling useless or at risk to Guard when crowded against.
4. Field-Elixir or whatever it's called in English (isn't the Monk ability called "Elixir-Field"? Then it's probably not Field-Elixir )
5. Sprint - From oGCD to a GCD. Worst design. Sprint should have 10-12s timer with 30s cooldown as an oGCD. Making plays and escapes more versatile.
6. Samurai LB - Can be easily cheesed. the 100% can have some mitigated with shields. 100% - (value of shield) = survive. By saying that. It matters how well your team coordinates.
7. Sage LB - Weird LB. DoT inside for enemies and protected from outside damage sources if enemy isn't within the field. (Can stop Zantetsuken. Stops Yojimbo in Clockwork)
8. Dragoon LB - Very noticeable when solo but very difficult to notice in a team fight.
9. Ninja LB - Guaranteed Kill equal to or under 50% targets unless covered by PLD above 50% HP, or DRK LB. Sage LB might be able stop it if Nin LB outside the ring. NIN lost its job identity. I do not think you PvE Ninjas use shurikens to DPS all day right?
10. Miracle of Nature - Worst addition to PvP. Simply to say. You added a skill that nobody can counter except by Guard. Guard technically isn't counterplay, even if you see the dash incoming, that is just a loss defensive CD options. MoN needs to be removed and probably changed into a Pacify move that no Skills can be used for 3s. (Can be purified) Why I say this is the dumbest move in all of PvP history. Like I mentioned early there is no way to counter it. Example of being able to counter a Poly if I recall from another game correctly would be WoW. They had Trinket that stopped such things

There no recycle of proper counterplay. It is simply A to B. Where purify just puts a bandage on top of the problem. But you are still useless as a headless chicken so to say or not viable if ganged up against when your Guard and or Purify is used up. Individual skill matters less in CC compared to early PVP. Plus we should have LB cast bar back for few classes because those snapshots are impossible to react to because they are instant and predictions only work a small percentage of the time. Suggested of such would be MCH LB.

There are other suggestions but first we must remove ourselves from this Overwatch game mode and return to Stormblood or Early Sh.B ideology. Advanced play not single button monkey minded mashing. Catch my drift?

[Rubytoe]

I catch your drift.

[Commander_Justitia]

ARR - Wonky Class Identity was there but lack of awe in battling. (Had Team Deathmatch mode called "The Fold")
H.W (Heavensward) - No Job Gauges yet, TP still in progress. All classes got new moves added to their core identity and this is where it begins to start flourishing. But there was some spark in PvP with changes. Era of many PvP players and toxicity. Beginning of the best Era. Beginning of Feast.
S.B (Stormblood) - Job Gauges introduced. I believe TP was remove early or late patches. Golden Age of PVP. PvE was the best it ever was with high learning curve on most classes. Actual MMORPG job identity. This was the epitome of the battle mechanics. If you had to reference anything. This was the most Perfect system with the net code + job identity in the history of the game. (Few exceptions that Sh.B and E.W fixed)
Sh.B (Shadowbringers) - Simplified PvP between AoE and Single target combos. Job gauge, counterplay A-B-C but no C -> A options. Because of only having a choice of 2 additional skills at one time. Good concept was looking forward to better PvP idea based off this balance. Highly balanced to some degree. Tanks were tanks, Healers were healers, and DPS were DPS.
E.W - Crystal Conflict (What is this Overwatch junk)?! Where is the counterplay? Why is everyone able to do so much damage and the job identity is removed, making everyone some DPS with with "some" identity.

Shadowbringers brought AoE, because they needed AoE in Frontline. That is the whole issue in the end. They make PvP for 2 modes, because they wanted to keep it simple and casual. Ignoring that the most fun players had, was when PvP wasn't simple. It was the beginning of the end. Making room for AoE skills, while removing single target skills that created more depth and complexity in gameplay.

Some other guy mentioned the tournament, I have said it like a year ago - the moment they announced it, you knew PvP won't change much gameplay wise anymore this addon. We have the next addon in half a year, they will add the new lvl 99/100 skills to the PvP rotation and remove some older ones again and probably call it a day.

I think the current mode is more "fun" for casuals, because the problem of Shadowbringers PvP was, that it got extremely predictable and boring. You had little CC, little big dmg skills, little regular offensive and defensive buffs. But as I said before, I don't think it is suitable for a Ranked mode, because of the RNG/Lag/snapshot dependence on some skills and how some limit breaks work. In older PvP you were able to carry your team to victory easily as a good player, now it wouldn't be rare to lose more games in the casual queue than in the top100 crystalqueue - why is that so?

In my opinion, they should split up Frontline and Arena PvP. Bring back PvP traits like we had them during ARR and HW. Let players make "talenttrees" of them, depending which mode they join, one of them activates automatically. PvP needs to stop catering to casual players so damn much. Stop rewarding inaction and losing in PvP so much. Add diminishing returns perks for CC in Frontline maybe even.

• I feel like the current gunsblazing PvP system would have worked better in a true "Arena" mode - similar to The Fold. Get in, unleash hell, and out. Win or lose and be done.
• The more tactical aspect of PvP would belong into the Feast era. 4 players - Heal, Tank, Melee, Range. More calculated, less RNG, more endurance/sustain focused, less crits/less LB memes.
• Current PvP system can be viable in Frontline, Rival Wings if there are additions to the gameplay that are Frontline specific.

So, make traits interesting, let players have 2 or 3 presets of them, mode dependent.

And I don't mean this meaningless shit that was barely optional, unless you wanted to be a special gardengnome.




I mean the real shit.




Each "Enhanced XXX" was 1 Perk in the skill. Could make them even more interesting than just "more potency" and less "recast time". And let us pick more than 1 or 2.... We are not little kids who cant think what button to press, when we have more than 6 on our hotbar.

We went from this



to this...



Find the middle ground in the number of skills! And buff blackmage.

[SpritePR]

SNIP

I like the idea of more control over pvp skills but given how people struggle to even utilize the current simple toolkit I don't see how they won't struggle with a more complicated one. They should start by looking at excessive CC in front lines for sure. I understand how to avoid DRK but I can't avoid them 4-5 times in a row. They should try to fix those issues first then consider adding more stuff. I do fully agree that they need to incentivize winning more.

Too many people just don't care and it makes frontlines and casual CC a chore.

[Atreus]

snip

Ugh, stop. The glory days stay in my heart and my memories already. Seeing the menus again makes me look at the present-day with such contempt.

[Oni_Akuma]

I admire you for keep record of all the stuff from the past.

This is where we need to Return to

All you other weaklings should just learn to play an MMORPG better. MMORPGS have been out for 20+ years. There should be little complaints for new comers and just GIT GUD. Literally my 20 years experience (6 years WoW, 8 years FFXIV, and about 5-10 others in between) or about 20 years all down the drain because how noob oriented FF14 has became due to massive public. PVP was better when the community was toxic. There was always someone trying to outclass the other for supremacy. :P

I know cause I battle for supremacy everywhere I play or if I read the tool tips and since my in-depth knowledge of the game like it's the back of my hand, I know how most things will turn out. This current PVP. The Peak has already been achieved around season 1 or 2 with little to no room for advancement. Square Enix literally just slapped a few ingredients and called it a cake.