Using BLU to end the war

[Renathras]

And there’s the call of the void. I am indeed in hell, and there is no escape.

You know what? Screw it. Fine, you take SGE. I actually think your SGE ideas are interesting. I'd never play it, but I never play AST now and am fine with some healer Jobs that I don't want to play (literally an accepted result of the 4HM). I've advocated for that for 2 years now, so yeah, have at it. I actually was looking at https://miro.com/app/board/uXjVMEgycsU=/

Prognosis and Diagnosis II look a bit too powerful (500 party and 800 single target spamable GCD heals with no MP cost? Was that supposed to be 0 MP cost? o.O), though I do like you giving the Hamia effect to their Eukrasian versions. I guess it's the Adddersgall consumption, though I'd be worried how this would be able to deal with Doom heal checks without something it could fall back on as a spamable heal. Or can you cast them without MP (again, ridiculously powerful spells...) but they only are damage neutral(maybe?)/generate Adderssting when you have an Addersgall? Should the cost be "X00 MP or 1 Addersgall"? But hey, it's your SGE, just a mild concern. Rhizo converts MP to Addersgall, and you get them over time anyway...

On the damage side, Addersting generates every 15 sec or when executing the above heals while having Addersgalls. Dosis is a standard spell, Dyskrasian Dosis a DoT that you want to use under Dyskrasia to generate an Addersting (so every 15 sec or using Eukrasian Rhizo), Toxicon for movement (maybe?) or Mnemocon for slightly less damage but an MP restoration, Plegma has its CD and comboes into Aphonia to generate additional Addersting (what's the point of Adderstings, though, since Toxicon isn't actually a damage increase and you seem to have a lot of other movement tools?), you can substitute Eukrasian Plegma instead if you want to expend some MP to put a barrier on your Kardia target, and...

...is Ekhokardia the only way to directly heal your Kardia target while doing damage? That seems a bit odd to me if the goal is to primarily heal by doing damage. I do like that there's an AOE version, though. Curing Waltz? Just GCD, spamable, and with an MP cost?

And once per minute, Pneuma generates the Sacred Soil effect while also doing AOE damage.

Honestly, it's pretty wild, but if that's what you'd find fun, I have no issue with it. I think there's something not QUITE making sense to me though, but maybe it's just how I'm looking at it. Also, only 18 abilities? Leveraging Eukrasia/Dyskrasia to massive hotbar efficiency. I can appreciate that.

...

Again, to please who? Which veteran players? I've been playing since 2014, so I'm a veteran, too.

What I'd probably go for is Proshell, Aero 3 upgrade to Banish, and Afflatus being changed from Solace/Rapture into a single ability like Eukrasia (or like Recitation) that allows the next GCD heal (any of Cure 1, Cure 2, Cure 3, Medica 1, Medica 2, and Regen) to be cast at no MP cost and nourish the Blood Lily, consuming one normal Lily in the process. Probably would also combine Cure 1 and 2 (lower the cast time of Cure 2 to 1.5 sec and MP cost to 600) and likewise combine Medica 1 and 2 (increase the base heal of Medica 2 to be identical to Medica 1's). I might also just have Regen be a separate thing from the above and just have every cast of it (it's already instant cast) nourish the Blood Lily, but I'm not certain on this one yet. I just find the idea of throwing Regens on people and exploding Misery on the boss hilarious for some reason...

Also, no, a 30 sec Dia and 24 sec Banish is not the same as a 12 sec Dia and 15 sec Banish. The latter ones consume far more mental energy to maintain and are falling off all the time, making it a more obnoxious exercise in plate spinning. Though Banish at 15 sec might not be terrible and would make a nicer cadence. Especially since we don't have the averaged Solace/Rapture coming out 3x per minute since they're shifted to using other GCD heals, which would be a slightly different feel. I also think Assize should be a GCD with 2 charges, but oGCD with 2 charges would also be kind of nice. The problem is people would just try to maximize the damage of it instead of use the flexibility for healing...

Though, you wording your issue with trying a compromise does make some sense (that is, you not quite getting what I'd really dislike vs what I dislike but would accept vs what I'd like). Hm...I'll have to think about it, honestly. I don't really even like Dia, though macro abuse makes it nicer, and my Aero 3/Banish is more an olive branch to the people always saying they liked SB WHM having Aero 3 (but no one actually defends anything else about it) so the thought is, if we had that, those people would presumably be happy with WHM's EW kit otherwise since that's the only part they say they miss about WHM going from SB to EW.

I suspect that isn't accurate, but for the sake of compromise, it seems a worthwhile olive branch to try. As I often point out, WHM going from SB to ShB didn't lose anything other than Aero 3 and Fluid Aura, and its overall kit became better in every way, so I honestly don't think just having Aero 3 back would make those people as happy as they say, but considering how often it's asked for, it seems worthwhile to try and see if that makes people happy.

The simplest compromise would just be "take EW WHM and give it Aero 3". I've not seen anyone willing to actually defend SB era lilies, so I think everyone agrees that SB WHM sucked, everyone just misses twirly staff (and, not gonna lie, I do, too, even if I only used Aero 3 in AOE and didn't care for it as a DoT at the time anyway). No one seems to ask for anything else SB WHM had. People here ask for new things for WHM, but not from SB itself. So if we took EW WHM and just added Aero 3 and had it upgrade to Banish and that make everyone happy, I'd be fine with it, even if I personally wouldn't care as much for Banish being there, I'd consider it an acceptable compromise.

As for the designs:

I could give you four distinct healer designs RIGHT NOW. And have. So that isn't that difficult. The fact two of them are what the healer designs were before (SCH and AST), one of them is borrowing/reviving a former ability it lost (WHM), and one of them would (if I was building it) be borrowing heavily from another Job designed by this team (RDM's cast mechanics), it wouldn't require much. Hell, all the DPS Jobs are designed to feel and play differently, and they're designed by this same team. Or they could oursource designs, like how Ty offered a SGE one.

And if we didn't want SB SCH - I proposed a SCH design before that everyone seemed to find pretty acceptable (SCH is my second most played healer), so got you covered there, too.

[Icecylee]

(what's the point of Adderstings, though, since Toxicon isn't actually a damage increase and you seem to have a lot of other movement tools?)

It's easy to forget because the game itself doesn't really explain it, but generally speaking Spell/Weapon Skills are your GCD buttons, and Abilities are oGCDs. So I'm pretty sure this version of toxicon is supposed to be ogcd and therefore a damage increase (esp with the 1s recast)