Major Spoilers for all Expansions - Some general things I didn't understand

[Cilia]

Um... good news? This one is actually a GATHERING tribe. Activities for miner, botanist, or fisher. No crafting required. Thats the lopporits.

I don't do gathering either. It's kind of a feedback loop with crafting.

...can I get a citation for... any of that? At all? Because I've never heard any of that, and in fact it's refuted by what I thought were clearly stated facts about what our Echo is (which is... well, not that; we've never used it for that) and what the crystal is doing (it's got a spell within it that's doing the summoning thing).

I don't recall it being an Echo ability, but to my memory it's what the Azem magick does. Azem's magick allows us to summon "allies" from across time and space, with "allies" not necessarily being limited to people we've already met. That's why it lets us summon random people instead of adventurer allies we've specifically already met - it can be directed to summon specific people (as in Ultima Thule) but will otherwise summon anyone willing and able to help us when invoked.

[Cleretic]

I don't recall it being an Echo ability, but to my memory it's what the Azem magick does. Azem's magick allows us to summon "allies" from across time and space, with "allies" not necessarily being limited to people we've already met. That's why it lets us summon random people instead of adventurer allies we've specifically already met - it can be directed to summon specific people (as in Ultima Thule) but will otherwise summon anyone willing and able to help us when invoked.

Yeah, according to everything I know the crystal absolutely just houses the ability to do that, and if you gave it to Y'shtola she'd be able to use it for the same thing*. The notion of it somehow tapping into our Echo for this is a new one on me.

*Y'shtola would not use it for the same thing, she'd summon seven people to get research done eight times as fast.

[Eloah]

Yeah, according to everything I know the crystal absolutely just houses the ability to do that, and if you gave it to Y'shtola she'd be able to use it for the same thing*. The notion of it somehow tapping into our Echo for this is a new one on me.

*Y'shtola would not use it for the same thing, she'd summon seven people to get research done eight times as fast.

It is stated when we are given the crystal that engraved on it is the signature spell of Azem. We learn that the Echo is just the remnants of the Ancients powers, and that any specialties the echo has, like Krile's aetherial tracking or Mikoto's ability to see into the future, are just specialties of their Ancient selves; like Emet-Selch and Hythlodaeus's soul sight. The only reason the crystal works is because it is being used by us. Only a shard of Azem is able to activate the spell. This is shown as the reason why we were always able to find allies for our fights, it's what our Echo does, we were just finding them unconsciously before, now we are using the crystal as a medium instead.

It should be noted that this is a retroactive change to our echo, as I doubt the devs thought far ahead as to what our specific echo was capable of, if anything at all. They did say that the echo manifests differently in each person, so they probably had ideas, but when it came time to implement it, they just stuck with "the power of friendship".

[Cleretic]

It is stated when we are given the crystal that engraved on it is the signature spell of Azem. We learn that the Echo is just the remnants of the Ancients powers, and that any specialties the echo has, like Krile's aetherial tracking or Mikoto's ability to see into the future, are just specialties of their Ancient selves; like Emet-Selch and Hythlodaeus's soul sight. The only reason the crystal works is because it is being used by us. Only a shard of Azem is able to activate the spell. This is shown as the reason why we were always able to find allies for our fights, it's what our Echo does, we were just finding them unconsciously before, now we are using the crystal as a medium instead.

It should be noted that this is a retroactive change to our echo, as I doubt the devs thought far ahead as to what our specific echo was capable of, if anything at all. They did say that the echo manifests differently in each person, so they probably had ideas, but when it came time to implement it, they just stuck with "the power of friendship".

I know that scene well enough to be able to immediately cross-reference it, and, no. Sorry. This is just straight-up not what the scene describes. Your first sentence is correct, but everything else is nowhere to be seen.

I mentioned before that there was a member of the Convocation who opposed Zodiark's summoning and defected. One whose office was left vacant...

Defectors having been deemed unworthy of commemoration, no crystal exists for the individual in question.

...Or shouldn't exist, at any rate─and wouldn't, had a friend not created one in secret.

A crystal bearing the forgotten name of his office, along with a magick of his own conceiving─a singular incantation embodying his spirit.

Among all the offices, the Fourteenth was most unusual. For while the rest sat in Amaurot, its holder was charged with gaining an intimate knowledge of the wider world.

In the course of his duty, he traveled the length and breadth of every land, and befriended countless folk.

He encountered troubles too, of course. Matters which he could simply have referred to the Convocation. But that was not his way.

Nay, more often than not, he would call upon his comrades, and together resolve matters themselves.

Such is the magick sealed within that crystal─the magick to summon the stars to your side.

In time of greatest need, should you wish upon it with all your heart, it will surely answer your call.

And now it is where it belongs.

This is the transcript on Gamer Escape, but I've also had a recording of it sitting around since 5.5, and can confirm it's identical save for the pronouns. If I'm looking at the wrong part of the scene, go ahead and point me to the right one, I'm always open to being corrected.

[Eloah]

I know that scene well enough to be able to immediately cross-reference it, and, no. Sorry. This is just straight-up not what the scene describes. Your first sentence is correct, but everything else is nowhere to be seen.



This is the transcript on Gamer Escape, but I've also had a recording of it sitting around since 5.5, and can confirm it's identical save for the pronouns. If I'm looking at the wrong part of the scene, go ahead and point me to the right one, I'm always open to being corrected.

Sorry I wouldn't know where else to point you. A good deal of the information we get in this game is drip fed to us, with some latter information filling in gaps we didn't realize were there. Sorta like how we learn in Endwalker that the figure in Elidibus's memories was actually Azem, not "The First's WoL" as the initial patch had us think. I know at some point it's explained that Azem's signature ability is that of calling allies from afar. Combined with the information we've been given about the Echo, that tells us that that is what our Echo does, and retroactively explains why we were always able to locate help for our fights. You don't have to believe me, but until more/other information is given, this what the game is telling us.

[Cleretic]

but until more/other information is given, this what the game is telling us.

Where? Where is the game telling us this?

I find a pretty key thing in lore-talking, especially when you're also doing things with that lore like fanfiction or roleplaying, is to constantly review your preconceived notions. We're prone to accidentally lying to ourselves, misremembering details as being officially stated in the game when they were just implied, speculated, or even completely fabricated by someone else entirely, possibly even ourselves. This is even more true for the content you hold close, because you're unlikely to have actually replayed, say, the questline for your main job anytime recently. There's nothing wrong with that, that's basically just a fact of how human brains work, they aren't perfect. But we owe it to ourselves and everyone to, when a preconceived notion is questioned, to be able to either find and share where we got the idea, or to accept that we might not have it right.

And that's what I'm asking of you. You're saying something that's going against how I, and several others, remember this particular part of the game. So prove it and convince us, rather than just saying 'I'm right, trust me'.

[Eloah]

Where? Where is the game telling us this?

I find a pretty key thing in lore-talking, especially when you're also doing things with that lore like fanfiction or roleplaying, is to constantly review your preconceived notions. We're prone to accidentally lying to ourselves, misremembering details as being officially stated in the game when they were just implied, speculated, or even completely fabricated by someone else entirely, possibly even ourselves. This is even more true for the content you hold close, because you're unlikely to have actually replayed, say, the questline for your main job anytime recently. There's nothing wrong with that, that's basically just a fact of how human brains work, they aren't perfect. But we owe it to ourselves and everyone to, when a preconceived notion is questioned, to be able to either find and share where we got the idea, or to accept that we might not have it right.

And that's what I'm asking of you. You're saying something that's going against how I, and several others, remember this particular part of the game. So prove it and convince us, rather than just saying 'I'm right, trust me'.

I never stated "I'm right, trust me" you can believe what you want. As I said, information is drip fed to us and fills in gaps. Not always are things stated outright. For instance, the game has never outright stated we are the reincarnation of Azem, everything just points to it. So are we not Azem? I'm saying that based on all of the information we have up until this point, the game is telling us, "this is the specialty of your echo". If that isn't our Echo's specialty, then what is? It would seem odd for the devs not to have told us that by now, since they told us everything else about it.

[Zero-ELEC]

Sorta like how we learn in Endwalker that the figure in Elidibus's memories was actually Azem, not "The First's WoL" as the initial patch had us think.

That's not... that's not right. There's no indication of this whatsoever anywhere in the game.

[Eloah]

That's not... that's not right. There's no indication of this whatsoever anywhere in the game.

It is stated in Endwalker, during the Elpis section, that Azem wandered around and fought battles in their signature armor.

Plus if you think about it, the memories we see are from before the sundering. Elidibus would have no reason to think about The First's WoL, unless he is thinking about their inspiration, the "First" WoL, which was Azem.