So when is AST getting nerfed in Frontline

[Valence]

Hence why they will initially begin to run in alongside the DRK/WAR, then using the initial LB cast slightly before the WAR stun / DRK voke. Whether you want to believe it or not, they have the timing perfect. I do agree that many casual players won't even attempt to use Guard/Purify, which obviously doesn't help the matter. But even those who do don't fare much better. It may help you to get through the initial attacks (just...), but as soon as they reach BH5 (which obviously doesn't take long), there is very little anyone can do. Add in the WARs LB to remove Guard, and you're having the time of your life...

I legit don't see how there is little anyone can do. 3 Skyshatter with BH5 will not magically go through guard.

However if WAR removes guard, that's starting to be akin to having a DNC (easier to coordinate with a WAR, just a lot less powerful and far reaching). I have yet to see such premades though, but maybe they're everywhere on other DCs idk. They generally prefer stacking 3 DRGs, or 2 DRGs with an AST for Celestial River.

I personally play FL with friends (though rather than coordinate, we tend to compete with each other instead), but there are many who play solo. Having a large premade party should never be a pre-requisite to playing FLs without being repeatedly destroyed every game with ridiculous score differences. A reality of 'If you want to win, you have to have your own premade team, otherwise it's a guaranteed loss' is only going to push more players away from FLs. We aren't at that point at the moment (and I hope we never will be), but it's not a good outcome.

You're right, we're not at that point at the moment. I'll chalk it up to differences between DCs because so far in every game I have witnessed, premades are a minority, and most people just queue up with the jobs they like. Most BH5 players are also solo players, and while a lot of them sure use meta jobs, a lot also don't, and almost all of them are easy to take out without even the need of having your own counter premade.

Practice will obviously give an advantage, there's nothing can be done about that. Players who play FLs a lot will likely do better than those who only play occasionally. In the rush of the moment, many casual players may overlook the skills available to them. That is the same vs premade parties or random ones and is ultimately irrelevant. The main argument here is the advantage that premade parties have and the issue they have become in FLs.

That's where I don't agree and will probably never do. I don't see that so called advantage people keep bringing up, unless we suddenly see Guard removal jobs mixed into the deal, which I've never seen so far. And as I said above, I do think staggered DRG LBs from solo players are more dangerous, I personally fear those more than I fear premades, because I know how to defend those, and staggered LBs cannot be all guarded, which means you need to know exactly when to bail if taken out of position.

Random players manage perfectly fine vs random teams, hence why the win rates vs such teams are quite even. But when vs premades, random players suddenly 'don't have the skills'?
Which just confirms what we've been discussing: premade teams do have a big advantage over random teams.

I've never witnessed those supposedly gaping differences myself. People are blowing this out of proportions.

Kind of depends on the premade. The DRK may be silenced, stunned etc., but I've also seen some premades which have prevented even this by having the DRK set off with Guard, a WAR/GNB jump ahead to stun the target group, immediately following which the DRK joins them to voke. The only way to stop this being to remove the DRKs Guard yourself - for example, using a MNK LB to stun and Enlightenment to push them away. If you're quick enough you may succeed, but chances are you'll die doing it - jumping out into no-mans-land to stop the DRK while a horde of enemy team are within range waiting to take advantage of the voke.

If your DRK guards instead of doing what they're supposed to do, they can't be guarding and rushing your team at the same time, that's just not possible even with expedient up. If they start guarding once they're already there instead of using salted earth, you already missed your window of opportunity to silence them in both cases. If they wait that long to pop salted earth while making sure to soak silences under guard, it leaves 5 more seconds for people to bail. This is a fail strategy.


Either way, the whole point I was trying to make is that whether there is premades or not, the disaster is there.