So when is AST getting nerfed in Frontline

[Cidel]

There are a couple jobs that have personally annoyed me in Frontlines and could be nerfed, namely WAR, DRG, DRK, AST, WHM, DNC, MNK, SAM, SCH, SMN, PLD, BLM, GNB, RPR, MCH, RDM, NIN, SGE and BRD.

[Scintilla]

pre-mades have nothing to do with it, you can do the exact same combo with randoms.

Pre-mades can be a huge issue.
Yes, these same skills are available to everyone and, naturally, you can be very lucky and get an amazing team of randoms. But this isn't particularly common. And, as much as you may try, even in the good random teams, coordination has its limits.

A well-coordinated premade can very quickly pick up battle high and easily control any frontline. In the worst cases, unless the other two random teams make a silent alliance to blindly focus down the premade, there's little hope of winning. Even this isn't remotely guaranteed as, usually, one of the two random teams will decide it's not worth the fight and will take the easy option of siding with the premade to secure second place. Now imagine them spamming it, again and again. Same pre-made, same outcome every time.

Some premades are a slight nuisance, but perfectly workable. Others are a nightmare. There is no-one who can persuade me that pre-made teams are a non issue. I can only imagine that they haven't met a nightmare one yet!

[Naizakane]

Pre-mades can be a huge issue.
Yes, these same skills are available to everyone and, naturally, you can be very lucky and get an amazing team of randoms. But this isn't particularly common. And, as much as you may try, even in the good random teams, coordination has its limits.

A well-coordinated premade can very quickly pick up battle high and easily control any frontline. In the worst cases, unless the other two random teams make a silent alliance to blindly focus down the premade, there's little hope of winning. Even this isn't remotely guaranteed as, usually, one of the two random teams will decide it's not worth the fight and will take the easy option of siding with the premade to secure second place. Now imagine them spamming it, again and again. Same pre-made, same outcome every time.

Some premades are a slight nuisance, but perfectly workable. Others are a nightmare. There is no-one who can persuade me that pre-made teams are a non issue. I can only imagine that they haven't met a nightmare one yet!

Premades aren't actually an issue. I just got out of a seal rock game that had Flames win while being over 600 points ahead of second place. Did they have a premade? Yes, probably. Were they the issue? No. What was the issue? Every time they went for a DRK pull, at least half the people on my time refused to press Guard, and they got deleted. No, they weren't throwing WAR/DNC/RPR limit break into it. Premades are not the issue. Rather, they highlight the real issue: people cannot be trusted to use their 90% damage mitigation cooldown.

[maximesan514]

premade are 100% the problem. They should absolutely be removed or fix the game. one or the other

[Scintilla]

Premades aren't actually an issue. I just got out of a seal rock game that had Flames win while being over 600 points ahead of second place. Did they have a premade? Yes, probably. Were they the issue? No. What was the issue? Every time they went for a DRK pull, at least half the people on my time refused to press Guard, and they got deleted. No, they weren't throwing WAR/DNC/RPR limit break into it. Premades are not the issue. Rather, they highlight the real issue: people cannot be trusted to use their 90% damage mitigation cooldown.

If you're only saying it was 'probably' a premade, then it clearly wasn't a particularly good one.

I spend the majority of my online time in frontlines and about the only role I don't play in them is ranged. Yes, in random teams a sizable proportion of the players will be playing purely for roulette. They may take little interest in the game, just want it over with as quickly as possible, and probably wouldn't think to use Guard: they were full HP one second, dead the next.
But even amongst the players who do use it, whilst Guard may save you against many smaller or less coordinated premades, in some cases even that isn't remotely enough. Against some teams, even using Guard can leave you almost instantly deleted - it just buys you maybe an extra second, making you one of the last of your team to be so.

When it becomes clear we're vs a premade all you can really do is try to avoid grouping together too much (almost impossible in some areas, such as Fields of Glory and the centre section of Onsal Hakair), mark the DRK, use Guard if you do get caught. Focus them down and hope that the other random team does the same. I suppose some classes can help somewhat: AST and PLD for heals/defence and perhaps MNK or MCH to try to push away the DRK when they see them coming to buy a little time.

[Valence]

All you can do is turn down non personal FXs, and open your eyes for DRG LBs coming from miles ahead.

Problem is exactly like low ranked CC but exacerbated. Certain things are just too much for casual players.

[Astralrisk]

premade are 100% the problem. They should absolutely be removed or fix the game. one or the other

Removing premades will just make the game worse and not actually address any balancing issues at all. It's not like removing them will automatically make those jobs balanced, all you'd do is remove the ability to play with friends in a MMO and make the game worse, while still letting the actual problem exist.

[Mawlzy]

On Caetsu's stream a couple of days ago, a very obvious premade included a member with 23/95 K/A. You really okay with that? Agree balance is a separate issue, and that people should have the ability to play with friends, but mixing parties with solo queue simply isn't working IMO.

[maximesan514]

Removing premades will just make the game worse and not actually address any balancing issues at all. It's not like removing them will automatically make those jobs balanced, all you'd do is remove the ability to play with friends in a MMO and make the game worse, while still letting the actual problem exist.

I mean.. I agree... but its sooo broken and they dont do anything... its been broken for over a year now...

[Scintilla]

All you can do is turn down non personal FXs, and open your eyes for DRG LBs coming from miles ahead.

An example of one premade we get:
A WAR and DRK will jump into the group simultaneously. The WAR stunning the group, the DRK voking. If caught unawares, purify would remove the stuns, and then you can use Guard. However, by this time, the DRGs of the premade team have already used their LB. At best, chances are you'll have taken at least the first one as full damage before even getting the chance to use Guard. Your HP will be low and Guard isn't enough to cover the remaining LBs from the premade.

Sometimes you can avoid it by keeping away from the group, though, this is almost impossible on some maps. Marking the premade will make them easier to spot, giving you more notice to prepare Guard to avoid both the stun and reduce damage somewhat. But, even if you're lucky and able to use Guard immediately, it still isn't always enough to cover the huge wave of coordinated damage you're about to get.
Not only this, but it requires players to be prepared of the premade's method of attack which, if they only play occasionally, they're unlikely to be.

It's not like people are complaining about one or two DRGs. Then I would understand your advice of "Open your eyes".

Removing premades will just make the game worse and not actually address any balancing issues at all. It's not like removing them will automatically make those jobs balanced, all you'd do is remove the ability to play with friends in a MMO and make the game worse, while still letting the actual problem exist.

There is job imbalance, yes. But there is an immense difference between playing vs teams of randoms and a premade. A good premade is coordinated, attacks are pre-prepared and simultaneous, all aimed at the same target group. Very heavy, concentrated damage on a pre-positioned group of victims. Repeatedly.
Regardless of how well they try to coordinate, a random team's attacks will be a little more spaced. There will be slight delays, giving target players the opportunity to change position, heal, or defend. Any 'simultaneous' attacks will be by chance and unlikely to be repeated consistently throughout a game

If the problem was purely job imbalance, you would see no difference between playing a random team and a premade one. In reality, the difference is a gaping chasm