So when is AST getting nerfed in Frontline

[DracoCookie]

The meta is already Zerging, or haven't you been paying attention?

[Connor]

Sounds like a great start to the deathball meta where zerging groups never die.

True if applied to literally every AoE at the same rate, but if they made the fall-off proportionate to the skill then they’d still have stopping power to take out large group, just a bit less than they do now. If anything it’d make people more likely to mark and gang-up on enemies one at a time rather than using aoes. Plus, aoe effects that aren’t strictly direct damage don’t need fall-off or limitations on the amount of enemies it can affect (i.e Stun from Afflatus Purgation, DRKs / SMN draw-in, etc).

I mean, I don’t think it’s a major problem personally, but I do feel like certain jobs do too much aoe damage. I’m not even suggesting a heavy fall-off like 50%, even if it was just like 25% less for additional enemies after X amount. Scholar is a big offender with being able to Biolysis - Deployment yourself to top dps with fairly little effort. But then all that damage doesn’t actually result in many kills (usually), do it makes it seem as if Scholars doing ‘the most damage’ is true. Which, it technically is, but that’s not quite so true in practice (more damage isn’t much help if the enemy survives and runs away, they need to die).

[Scintilla]

pre-mades have nothing to do with it, you can do the exact same combo with randoms.

Pre-mades can be a huge issue.
Yes, these same skills are available to everyone and, naturally, you can be very lucky and get an amazing team of randoms. But this isn't particularly common. And, as much as you may try, even in the good random teams, coordination has its limits.

A well-coordinated premade can very quickly pick up battle high and easily control any frontline. In the worst cases, unless the other two random teams make a silent alliance to blindly focus down the premade, there's little hope of winning. Even this isn't remotely guaranteed as, usually, one of the two random teams will decide it's not worth the fight and will take the easy option of siding with the premade to secure second place. Now imagine them spamming it, again and again. Same pre-made, same outcome every time.

Some premades are a slight nuisance, but perfectly workable. Others are a nightmare. There is no-one who can persuade me that pre-made teams are a non issue. I can only imagine that they haven't met a nightmare one yet!

[Naizakane]

Pre-mades can be a huge issue.
Yes, these same skills are available to everyone and, naturally, you can be very lucky and get an amazing team of randoms. But this isn't particularly common. And, as much as you may try, even in the good random teams, coordination has its limits.

A well-coordinated premade can very quickly pick up battle high and easily control any frontline. In the worst cases, unless the other two random teams make a silent alliance to blindly focus down the premade, there's little hope of winning. Even this isn't remotely guaranteed as, usually, one of the two random teams will decide it's not worth the fight and will take the easy option of siding with the premade to secure second place. Now imagine them spamming it, again and again. Same pre-made, same outcome every time.

Some premades are a slight nuisance, but perfectly workable. Others are a nightmare. There is no-one who can persuade me that pre-made teams are a non issue. I can only imagine that they haven't met a nightmare one yet!

Premades aren't actually an issue. I just got out of a seal rock game that had Flames win while being over 600 points ahead of second place. Did they have a premade? Yes, probably. Were they the issue? No. What was the issue? Every time they went for a DRK pull, at least half the people on my time refused to press Guard, and they got deleted. No, they weren't throwing WAR/DNC/RPR limit break into it. Premades are not the issue. Rather, they highlight the real issue: people cannot be trusted to use their 90% damage mitigation cooldown.

[Scintilla]

Premades aren't actually an issue. I just got out of a seal rock game that had Flames win while being over 600 points ahead of second place. Did they have a premade? Yes, probably. Were they the issue? No. What was the issue? Every time they went for a DRK pull, at least half the people on my time refused to press Guard, and they got deleted. No, they weren't throwing WAR/DNC/RPR limit break into it. Premades are not the issue. Rather, they highlight the real issue: people cannot be trusted to use their 90% damage mitigation cooldown.

If you're only saying it was 'probably' a premade, then it clearly wasn't a particularly good one.

I spend the majority of my online time in frontlines and about the only role I don't play in them is ranged. Yes, in random teams a sizable proportion of the players will be playing purely for roulette. They may take little interest in the game, just want it over with as quickly as possible, and probably wouldn't think to use Guard: they were full HP one second, dead the next.
But even amongst the players who do use it, whilst Guard may save you against many smaller or less coordinated premades, in some cases even that isn't remotely enough. Against some teams, even using Guard can leave you almost instantly deleted - it just buys you maybe an extra second, making you one of the last of your team to be so.

When it becomes clear we're vs a premade all you can really do is try to avoid grouping together too much (almost impossible in some areas, such as Fields of Glory and the centre section of Onsal Hakair), mark the DRK, use Guard if you do get caught. Focus them down and hope that the other random team does the same. I suppose some classes can help somewhat: AST and PLD for heals/defence and perhaps MNK or MCH to try to push away the DRK when they see them coming to buy a little time.

[Valence]

All you can do is turn down non personal FXs, and open your eyes for DRG LBs coming from miles ahead.

Problem is exactly like low ranked CC but exacerbated. Certain things are just too much for casual players.

[maximesan514]

premade are 100% the problem. They should absolutely be removed or fix the game. one or the other

[Astralrisk]

premade are 100% the problem. They should absolutely be removed or fix the game. one or the other

Removing premades will just make the game worse and not actually address any balancing issues at all. It's not like removing them will automatically make those jobs balanced, all you'd do is remove the ability to play with friends in a MMO and make the game worse, while still letting the actual problem exist.

[Mawlzy]

On Caetsu's stream a couple of days ago, a very obvious premade included a member with 23/95 K/A. You really okay with that? Agree balance is a separate issue, and that people should have the ability to play with friends, but mixing parties with solo queue simply isn't working IMO.

[maximesan514]

Removing premades will just make the game worse and not actually address any balancing issues at all. It's not like removing them will automatically make those jobs balanced, all you'd do is remove the ability to play with friends in a MMO and make the game worse, while still letting the actual problem exist.

I mean.. I agree... but its sooo broken and they dont do anything... its been broken for over a year now...