Quality of life request for savage raid

[Fingazu]

Hi! Currently in the final fight of a savage tier, there is a weapon which drops for a random job/class.

If that job/class is not represented in the group of 8 players who have cleared the fight, it is often disappointing.

Could the loot roll be changed such that the weapon which drops is *always* for one of the (up to) 8 jobs present in the raid? That way it would always be useful (unless a duplicate), while still preserving some of the fun of the randomness.

Thank you to anyone who has read my suggestion.

[Jeeqbit]

This is the intention of the coffer which drops.

[technole]

The coffer was designed for the guarantee, they just left the face-up weapon as RNG bonus. I always love it because it could be our first savage clear and I was say astro, and it might be the white mage cane, so I'd get it and play it next week.

[ForsakenRoe]

I think it should remain as a completely random weapon drop, as if it was guaranteed to be one of the 8 classes present, A: it incentivizes people to play undergeared classes more (eg if I have the WHM weapon, I'd try to not play WHM at all costs, to raise the chance of getting a weapon for another healer), and B: it raises the chance of someone getting a dupe weapon they can't take (eg, if I ignore A, and play WHM anyway cos it's my most geared, it raises the chance of another WHM weapon dropping)

Instead, I think a fair solution would be this: given that the last fight used to drop the chestpiece coffer, and that's been moved down to the 3rd fight, there's a gap left in the loot where that chestpiece used to be. So, have the 4th fight drop TWO random weapons, plus a coffer, with the only rule being that the two random weapons cannot be the same one. So, NIN plus NIN drops cannot occur, but NIN + DNC can, even if a NIN or DNC is not in the party. This effectively doubles the chance that you get a random weapon that someone can use, but keeps some level of RNG to it. Maybe you get WHM AST drops and it's sad yes, but that's the luck of the draw.

This would also help those kind players who enjoy helping PFs get their first clear, as twice as many random-weapons dropping means faster gearing up alt roles to flex to

[Amarande]

I think it should remain as a completely random weapon drop, as if it was guaranteed to be one of the 8 classes present, A: it incentivizes people to play undergeared classes more (eg if I have the WHM weapon, I'd try to not play WHM at all costs, to raise the chance of getting a weapon for another healer), and B: it raises the chance of someone getting a dupe weapon they can't take (eg, if I ignore A, and play WHM anyway cos it's my most geared, it raises the chance of another WHM weapon dropping)

Point A seems double edged. See also below. Point B might be an issue, but there's always the fact that someone else could claim it for an alt job.

There is the argument that a fixed weapon drop at this point is out of place, because the whole idea of moving everything else to coffers was to eliminate the amount of useless loot that dropped in Savage, and in general mute the element of loot luck as much as possible - especially with raids getting generally a lot tighter recently (culminating in the debacle that was the P8S DPS check) so groups are noticeably trending towards being pickier about gear. Which leads to -

This would also help those kind players who enjoy helping PFs get their first clear, as twice as many random-weapons dropping means faster gearing up alt roles to flex to

Flex roles have apparently been a major issue this xpac, and the current gear situation does not help: "Hey, we need more healers." But also "Hey, we need to keep the ilvl requirement high to maximize our chances of clearing the DPS check." Upshot, people that decide to be nice and switch to healer find they can't get into the groups anyway because lo and behold they ... don't have as much gear as they had on their previous main so they don't meet the PF ilvl requirement! Oopsie.

If we want this to work out, then yes the game does need to be more encouraging to play with undergeared classes (and honestly, apart from Gordias and Midas which were universally regarded as way too tight, it WAS). Otherwise, we're going to keep getting the present situation where everyone can only play mains because of ilvl requirements to join a PT and role ossification/shortages (which is something XIV's job system was supposed to help avoid) simply intensify, because limitations on upper level gear due to weekly lockouts mean you can literally only get so far on alt jobs during tier ...

[Enjuden]

Frankly, it should be two unique weapons at minimum. I'd even argue with 3 since we'll have 23 jobs in Dawntrail. Keeping a single weapon is getting closer to winning third in the Jumbo cactpot if you want a similarity. Knowing my luck it's never.

[RitsukoSonoda]

TBH, my biggest complaint on the raids is still how the tokens are separated into specific gear slots instead of just having 1 token per tier with varied quantities based on slot. Basically stop cluttering my inventory SE.

[Amarande]

TBH, my biggest complaint on the raids is still how the tokens are separated into specific gear slots instead of just having 1 token per tier with varied quantities based on slot.

This might at least partly be technical limitations, assuming that they want to keep the policy that you need to have cleared X boss in order to get gear for Y slot.

XIV's engine seems to be very limited when it comes to referenceable criteria, in other words, what other parts of the game can ask "Does this character Z?" as a requirement to perform some or other action.

E.g., it's why they jacked up the commendation requirement so much for Mentor (despite the knock-on effects that creates, e.g., it actually selected against the most competent players: static and PF based groups earn no commendations, and neither does doing Hunt Trains for tomestones as has become the efficiency norm, and that's on top of the fact that raiders often have a lower cleared instance count as well - again because of using Hunt Trains rather than dungeons for tomes, and also because raiding involves a lot of prog wipe time for a relative handful of clears) - the engine required the reference criteria to be an achievement, and it is the achievements that jump that much.

So I'm not sure if the item trading system actually supports "you must have cleared instance A" as a direct criterion for being able to trade an item off a universal currency; it might need to actually be a quest (meaning having to re-vamp Savage unlocking) or an actual achievement per fight, then.

See also the trouble that was trying to deal with trolls rolling on extra 2B gear coffers during the first Nier raid as an example (due to it being a set coffer, there was no convenient way of flagging "you already have it" in order to block Need rolls once you do).

There is also the fact that this might have knock on effects on PF: how many players, especially at the less hardcore end, might prefer to simply grind tokens off the 1st raid fight (which is usually pretty easy to PF) for gear rather than push the more frustrating (both in difficulty and in filtered supply of potential team mates) 2nd and 3rd fights (think fights everyone hated like E2S)?

[CaedemSanguis]

8 tomes is too much for raid weap, they need to either put 2 random weapons with 1 coffer, or 2 coffer with 1 random weapon