Can we insert negative consequences for stacking jobs in FL?

[Celtazar]

Title. Ever since the 6.1 rework, the nature of FL has been to find the most meta job and stack as many of those as possible. This is typically a job with an AoE ability that is easy to use in consort with others to wipe entire teams and build Battle High quicker. We have seen this in many variations. SMN, DRK, DRG, WHM, SCH, AST have all been known to job stack.

While this is not technically cheating - these players are simply playing the jobs available for them - it points to the number one issue with Frontlines. It takes what is supposed to be a form of casual content in which you are allowed and encouraged to play with friends on whatever job you prefer, but makes it open to abuses such as job stacking. While I agree that friends should be able to queue together, I do not think 4-man job stacks should be rewarded for playing all four of the same job to gain an unfair advantage on the enemy teams.

The consequences of this are far reaching. It discourages solo players, people with schedules that don't allow them to play FL frequently, or people without friends to team up with. It prevents players from reaching achievements in game when they are unknowingly teamed up against a pre-made job stack. It destroys the casual nature of Frontlines, compelling players to play meta jobs instead of what they enjoy. And it unjustly rewards players who are able to transform their higher-than-average win-rates due to job-stacking into Gil making.

The solution, unlike the blanket nerf to Summoners following 6.1, is we need a dynamic system in place that discourages job stacking when it takes place. We should not disallow it completely, nor should we prevent friends from queuing together. After all, this is meant to be casual content. However, if duplicate jobs are not allowed in Crystal Conflict, and duplicate jobs slow LB generation in PvE content, then an equivalent consequence should be added to Frontlines.

My proposal: if 3 or more of the same job is present on the same team, then all three take a massive dmg reduction represented by a Damage Down debuff on their bar that remains until one of them changes to a separate job. This Damage Down debuff escalates in severity as more people stack the same job within the same alliance. Between 19 jobs and 24 slots, this will encourage a far more diverse array of jobs in FL to avoid the Damage Reduction. Players will be actively encouraged to play their favorite job even if it isn't considered meta and will arguably have a better effect on job-stacking teams rather than blanket damage nerfs to whole jobs. This proposal is designed to be dynamic, changing to each unique match as team comps change. And perhaps, also, players will be encouraged to try out new jobs in Frontlines that they normally would not have considered playing.

[Xylira]

What all of those jobs have in common, and arguably why they're so often used for stacking in FLs, is that they all have powerful AOE burst damage, with the exception of SCH but they more than make up for it with insane sustained damage.

I think a better case could be made that AoE abilities need some kind of diminishing returns for Frontlines, because they just plain stack too well together and can lead to team wide wipes with only a handful of opposing players coordinating their AOE burst damage together.

[Mawlzy]

What all of those jobs have in common, and arguably why they're so often used for stacking in FLs, is that they all have powerful AOE burst damage, with the exception of SCH but they more than make up for it with insane sustained damage.

I think a better case could be made that AoE abilities need some kind of diminishing returns for Frontlines, because they just plain stack too well together and can lead to team wide wipes with only a handful of opposing players coordinating their AOE burst damage together.

Right, given the skills are allegedly balanced for CC, one might limit AoEs in FL to five nearest enemies.

[Nickypooh]

Right, given the skills are allegedly balanced for CC, one might limit AoEs in FL to five nearest enemies.

Or reducing the damage by 35-50% after 5 targets, any of em could work but the problem is that priority of targets assuming it goes off closest can be really wonky I'm sure due to how the netcode works.

[SalamanderIX]

I think this is an over-complication of the issue. The issue is Dark Knight because Salted Earth puts you into a blender where it all aoe can hit at the same time, it doesn't matter as much which jobs or how many of the same, since it all gets put in the blender.
Otherwise, I'd say damage in frontlines is way too low due to melee and tank damage reduction and recuperate.

[Histrio]

I like the idea of debuff for using the same job in a party for FL(or Rival Wings), it will make more dynamic game play and requires more strategy.

The introduction of damage reduction what made the Melee and Tank preference over others. Alongside with additional potency buffs, additional range potency buff, additional damage received reduction skills & self healing, and wider area-of-effect, upfront lethal damage LB's. Don't forget these can be double weave with one another! Put that against a caster or range, it is hardly a choice.

Anyway, I hope the devs will take a note of your suggestion.

[Doozer]

I think this is an over-complication of the issue. The issue is Dark Knight because Salted Earth puts you into a blender where it all aoe can hit at the same time, it doesn't matter as much which jobs or how many of the same, since it all gets put in the blender.

I agree that this is the bigger issue. Lots of AoEs can be walked out of or Guarded, meanwhile every time I'm in FL the enemy teams are 50% DRK + DRG and my team has none and we always lose in that situation.

[Valence]

Are you complaining about premades (le sigh), or just about stacking jobs? That's two very different kinds of topics...

Either way, I think your solution is the wrong one for many reasons: the queue of the duty finder doesn't discriminate between jobs for FLs, and it has always been so. In the past when the number of healers you had literally decided whether you won or lost games before the introduction of medkits and elixirs, people had to fight for who would sacrifice themselves to heal, every time. Every time, you had people fighting each other because the game asked them indirectly to field certain comps or not play the job they wanted and eat the bullet instead. What you are suggesting is not that different. You praise the ability to play the jobs people want (and I agree), yet you introduce factors that directly get into conflict with that specific idea. It is essentially unfair and scummy to let people queue up freely with the job they desire, and then have them be pressured to change their job once inside because the system allows you to do it.

If you want people to flock less to meta jobs, and limit AoE stacking, then I do believe there is other, way easier solutions that would make sense as well and wouldn't encroach into that principle. Else better to just have the matchmaker have role filters for each party like in pve... And I'm not sure if we want to get into that rabbit hole.

Reduce AoE stacking with diminishing falloff like in PvE past the first 3-4 targets or whatever works, really. That kind of nerf would be so drastically nasty already that it would shift the whole meta immensely.

[AnnRam]

Rework DRK limit break and problem solved, now they won't jump 1vs 48 drag everyone in / cc and survive because their limit break has no counterplay.

[maximesan514]

Square enix doesn't care