AOE Spam Fest <Please remove it>

[Sabaku_Usagi]

This is just another stop PL thread. Where are you pulling 10-20 mobs and aoeing them down while still getting decent XP/hour or mob?

For the most part you take a group of people in the level range of the mobs (or below the level range). Get the one with Aoe with high defense, and aggro a large group. Then run to the Pler and he/she will nuke them down (typically 1 shot or so).

This is not part of the mechanics but is part of Pling. I personally don't object to the PL system.
1. Leveling slowly sucks, and most of the decent content is end game. Maybe if there was more mid or low level content that was good, or level caps (another thing I don't care for) then that may change. Most MMO are grind as fast as you can to the top or near top levels, then start playing.
2. People say they never learn their jobs, However you won't learn that much of your jobs at low levels anyway. When there was slooooooooooooow leveling like we had in 11 there were still tons of 75s that had no idea how to play their job. It is up to the player to decide to learn that, leveling speed does not change that.
3. The one objection is instead of screwing with the XP and leveling system, add a skill system like in 11. Just because you powered to 99 does not make you a power house. You learned your job by skilling it up.
4. This is not FFXI, if you want FFXI type system go back to FFXI and don't enter Abyssea (that is a choice you are not forced it enter it. I like the fact that this is a Different game even if there are some similarities.

I understand that it bothers you that you want the same low level mobs to AOE so you can farm or level, well my suggestion is talk, sometimes if you want to farm some or need particular items ask if you can help and get some of the drops (not rare drop items of course). You would be surprised it happens, otherwise find a time when it is not being leveled on or find a different mob in your level range or lower.

I personally like the new system and makes for a fun, game especially when you have large groups of mobs and things go wrong lol.

Large pools in a PL group does not guarantee safety or no risk.

It's not just PLing but spirit bonding as well. Have you ever taken 3 or more warriors to wolf camp? It's seriously the most broken thing out there, yes... you get great EXP/SB but really? It doesn't make the game anything but child's play.

I'm not entirely sure how to "fix" it, but I just don't want everything from 50 and beyond to be 3 warriors 1 whm and everyone else standing around /doze

[Lux_Rayna]

This is just another stop PL thread.

No it is not, because the xp the mobs give would have to be increased to compensate for the increased toughness. This means xp chains would have to be rebalanced for the same reason. Instead of training 15 mobs and insta killing them, you train 5 and spend a bit more time killing them for the same xp reward. PLing existed in XI btw, so this thread really has nothing to do with PLing.

On Topic: The zergfest is a clusterfuck at best. This is amplified by the shit targetting system. I'm sure SE will fix it eventually.

[Zhinse]

Fascinating Discussions.

its pretty funny to think that AOE was nerfed from the original class balance too. Yoshi-P has stated that he isn't satisfied with the way crowd control works in this game just yet, so i'm looking forward to what pops up in the future.

So they'll have some promising mechanics in the future. My Issues with battles at the strongholds and such is Readability issues. When you get that great amount of enemies attacking your tank its really hard to tell which one to attack, what direction you are facing, and keeping an eye on whether one of the mobs is doing a special move or not. My hopes is that they improve the readability of these large scale battles in the future. It would be nice to iron out all the clipping but i can understand if its hard to find a way to do that without adversely affecting gameplay.

[Grimwald]

No. The point of final fantasy is supposed to be based around fighting epic hordes of monsters and proving that you're some kind of epic warrior of legends. Fighting one Goblin at a time doesn't really emulate that.

[Firon]

No. The point of final fantasy is supposed to be based around fighting epic hordes of monsters and proving that you're some kind of epic warrior of legends. Fighting one Goblin at a time doesn't really emulate that.

This ^ it's the same reason most xi players avoided fights where there are lot of of adds.

[Maxthunder]

No. The point of final fantasy is supposed to be based around fighting epic hordes of monsters and proving that you're some kind of epic warrior of legends. Fighting one Goblin at a time doesn't really emulate that.

Really??? Seriously whats so epic about killing mobs that are level 50 or 52? Shit I can solo 8-10 mobs that are level 50. Alll FFXIV is, is a spam fest. There is no strategy, there is nothing in the open world it is zerg everything. There is no epicness what-so-ever in killing anything in this game. This game is easy mode plain and simple!!

[Hyrist]

Let's take the political correctness out of this debate and focus on what it's really about.

OP basically said: "Nerf BLM, Nerf WAR harder."

That's all. And that's flawed.

AoE is going to be a factor in this game. A good factor, and a fun factor in many cases. In United We Stand, both AoE and single target abilities were needed to win the fight, and deisgns in the game should be designed more along that line.

What I keep finding is that those who are scared by Black Mages and Warrior's Capasity to quickily destroy a cluster of weak monsters is the assumption that this sort of field EXP is the only solution for their group EXP needs.

As I've stated before: Why not Leves designed for groups?

Listen to the pros here for a moment before you complain:

You can pick whatever EXP camp you want as they'll be accessible to everyone thanks to the fact that the monsters for you will be designated to you.
The combat will have more depth to it because the monsters can be designed specifically to make group combat feel good.
The difficulty and thus the rewards can be adjustable on the fly.
And you'll still require that feeling of comradeship in getting a group together.

To top it off, they could also design different KINDS of group Leves, one of which could have you defending against waves of enemies that come in to a designated camp spot. Or having you prepare an onslaught against a large enemy group or boss type monster, depending on your desire.

It is a far superior design than simply going out and killing random fauna that could easily be ruined by competition, or in trade ruin someone elses day by stampeding over a player's hunting grounds. It can not only emulate the desired feel of an XP party, but it can also expand upon an XP parties options in obtaining said XP.

I do not see the reason why you have to drastically alter the current design of field monsters - something which should be a unique experience in and of itself, just to create something that could be met in systems already existing in the game, and can be used to circumvent the flaws the old 'xp camp' system have in terms of camp competition.

Let's use what we have to move forward, and improve upon the game to meet many player's desires, rather than regress backwards to appeal to ONLY one group or another.

[Hyrist]

Why does it have to be 'individual mobs'?

Why can't monsters as a group be more of a challenge. I don't know about you, but Many players on One Monster should be reserved for strong and boss type monsters. The rest should be group on group when it comes to parties.

It wouldn't be all that bad if we could see enemy groups, especially in beast-men zones, act and function as we do. With a tank pulling provokes and taunts on us to keep us from attacking their squishes, which in turn deal damage and do curing.

Of course that's just one of many suggestions that would grow the game rather than simply alter it to suit another crowd. The game should appeal to a wide audience and therefore should accommodate both camps. I still beleive Squad Leves would work best for party leveling desires as it eliminates the whole camp competition issue, and could provide various ways of gaining XP.

[heit]

It's a good point, though I don't see a solution myself.

You could increase the stats of lower tier enemies as per usual progression in FF game (recycled enemies with higher stats) which would bring the amount of mobs down, though balance would be needed so we don't end up with the extreme left like in FF11 where you need 8 people to take down a single Goblin which was half the size of the axe being swung at it.

The issue thereafter is still that pts will generally use AoE to fight a group of enemies greater than X.

I've always wondered how it would work if AoE's were area based, so if you have say 10 enemies in a confined area on the tank, the damage of the AoE would be spread out based on the level of mobs, their position relevant to the epicentre, and if any of the mobs in front of them would act as a 'shield' and lessen the damage done.

Once again though, I feel we end up back at the "PT's AoE spamming".

Like I said... I don't know of a possible solution. I think if there was, SE would have implemented it by now and if not, may implement such either in/post 2.0

[Hyrist]

The problem isn't inherent in the game mechanics, though the lack of proper magic resist in the game does contribute to it.

The problem is inherent in the population taking the path of least resistance.

As I said, any fight of substance in this game uses AoE's properly. XP parties is not a fight of substance and never has been, not even in FFXI - and even then players took the path of least resistance. Fell Cleave burns anyone? If not Fell Cleave, how about TP burns? or Manaburns, or Arrowburns? None of these fights had substance to it, it was whatever exploit the players could get to yield greater XP. You are not going to break that trend unless you find a controlled method that will yield rewards greater than that of a typical mob grind.

My solution is creating group Leves - and it even addresses many of the concerns brought about by players here - so I've yet to hear of a better solution that has a broader appeal.