AOE Spam Fest <Please remove it>

[Ryans]

Some of you seem to be missing the point. Its not about how many monsters you fight, its about keeping control of the ones you do. Spamming abilities on monsters that you aren't even sure of their exact location because of the clusterfuck going on isn't Final Fantasy. Most of the Final Fantasies are turn based so it doesn't matter how many enemies you are fighting.

In case some of you weren't aware, trash pulls are actually allowed to be difficult content and not something that is just in the way of your reward. I'd rather have fight two or three challenging trash monsters than 8+ monsters that make it nearly impossible to determine who is hitting what.

[Isaveron]

Spamming abilities on monsters that you aren't even sure of their exact location because of the clusterfuck going on isn't Final Fantasy.

Seeing as most people tend to have their own definition of what is considered Final Fantasy, saying things like this is meaningless. You might think it isn't "Final Fantasy enough", but others might be okay with it.

[Ryans]

Seeing as most people tend to have their own definition of what is considered Final Fantasy, saying things like this is meaningless. You might think it isn't "Final Fantasy enough", but others might be okay with it.

Clearly people have their own definition of what feel Final Fantasy games should have, but none of the previous games (except maybe XIII) have combat where you can't keep track of what is going on. The idea that Final Fantasy characters are supposed to be godly just isn't true. Most of the characters are fairly normal people who get thrust into situation they weren't prepared for. With that said, the combat required various tactics because the characters were always facing challenges that were supposed to be able stop them but their teamwork prevailed.

So tell me, how does tab targeting the closest enemy in a group of 8 very weak monsters and using Fire to kill them at the same time have the same feel as any of the previous titles?

[Firon]

Clearly people have their own definition of what feel Final Fantasy games should have, but none of the previous games (except maybe XIII) have combat where you can't keep track of what is going on. The idea that Final Fantasy characters are supposed to be godly just isn't true. Most of the characters are fairly normal people who get thrust into situation they weren't prepared for. With that said, the combat required various tactics because the characters were always facing challenges that were supposed to be able stop them but their teamwork prevailed.

So tell me, how does tab targeting the closest enemy in a group of 8 very weak monsters and using Fire to kill them at the same time have the same feel as any of the previous titles?

Pick fire pair it will all materia and all the mobs on screen die.

[Hyrist]

So tell me, how does tab targeting the closest enemy in a group of 8 very weak monsters and using Fire to kill them at the same time have the same feel as any of the previous titles?

Clearly you've never played any of the 8 or 16 bit titles. That's exactly how EXP grinding works in those game.

-1 Pick field.
-2 Walk around field until random encounter occurs.
-3 Spam enemy squad with strongest AoE attacks (Using strongest focus attacks on the hardest monsters in the group for characters without AoE.)
-4 Find next random encounter.

That formulate and camps occur in every single final fantasy. The only reason why you have be able to keep track of it, is that it was slowed down for single player use. Play FF12 a while without pausing, and you'll see that your ability to keep track of the action diminishes. Not really because the monsters are too weak or the battle is too frantic, but because you're fighting real time on a 3d plane from one perspective.

Do the same Formula in FF6 with your cursor set to "Memory" and hold down your attack button with default AoE spells, and you'll get the exact sensation - not to mention faster XP.

So yeah, you kinda loose clout in your argument there. Every single player FF game can easily turn into an AoE-fest, and such tactics are usually only bested with specific monsters which can be considered the equivalent of raid monsters or raid bosses.

[Lux_Rayna]

Clearly you've never played any of the 8 or 16 bit titles. That's exactly how EXP grinding works in those game.

-1 Pick field.
-2 Walk around field until random encounter occurs.
-3 Spam enemy squad with strongest AoE attacks (Using strongest focus attacks on the hardest monsters in the group for characters without AoE.)
-4 Find next random encounter.

That formulate and camps occur in every single final fantasy. The only reason why you have be able to keep track of it, is that it was slowed down for single player use. Play FF12 a while without pausing, and you'll see that your ability to keep track of the action diminishes. Not really because the monsters are too weak or the battle is too frantic, but because you're fighting real time on a 3d plane from one perspective.

Do the same Formula in FF6 with your cursor set to "Memory" and hold down your attack button with default AoE spells, and you'll get the exact sensation - not to mention faster XP.

So yeah, you kinda loose clout in your argument there. Every single player FF game can easily turn into an AoE-fest, and such tactics are usually only bested with specific monsters which can be considered the equivalent of raid monsters or raid bosses.

No, you just supported his argument...the issue is that you have no idea what his argument is. The argument is NOT that AOE's = bad. The argument is that it is currently a clusterfuck of 15 mobs that are haphazardly fused together, creating such a mess that there is no feeling of "tactics" involved. You can't choose the strongest target effectively, you can't "line them up", you can't do anything except random target a mob and watch a whole group die. Your example is the exact opposite of what he's trying to argue against. In fact, your example is exactly what the OP wants. He's not speaking Greek, idk why its so hard to understand. There is no strategy in the game because:

1) Too many mobs, like way too many. No organization at all, I can't even choose my targets really based on the battlefield situation, and everything dies in one aoe. Maybe 2. That's just a zerg fest..like a DotA clone or Diablo. Click and watch things die.

2) Targetting is atrocious, which is amplified by #1. I can't focus my attacks well because I can't even see wtf is going on. There's a huge blob of feathers over there, to the point where I couldn't even count how many mobs there are, nor find the strongest one. Either cycle targets til I find it (dead by then due to collateral aoe dmg), or say screw it and throw an aoe at the nearest mob..hoping to kill the strong guy by accident. What generally happens is the latter.


Hopefully you now understand the point of the thread. Its not AOE, just the way its done. Final Fantasy has always been a "thinking" game...not a "haphazardly throw AoE's around and kill the guy you want eventually" game.

[Ruisu]

It's pretty shitty when your favorite class only has 1 AoE, and it's a shitty one at that. I can be the best single target DD for the entirety of FFXIV's lifespan, and it won't mean shit because everything is AoE heavy.

[Jynx]

It boils down to monsters that aren't instanced bosses are so weak that AOE spam-fest has become the de-facto way to deal with them.

If it took us longer than 10 seconds per monster to kill then perhaps we might watch how many we pull at once.

[NoloeTazier]

There can be a balance made between roaming camps AOEing everything in sight and camps that rely on pulls of stronger single mobs that take longer to kill. I agree the game revolves too much around AOE, whether its xping or our endgame content. Speed runs just further enable it. Bosses also need to be tweaked with this mind, "hard" shouldn't mean they spam long range, mid range, and close range AOE which leads to the "perfect" and safe party set ups. If its not fixed, new jobs could be useless from the get-go because they don't fit the criteria.

[cloverkitty]

This is just another stop PL thread. Where are you pulling 10-20 mobs and aoeing them down while still getting decent XP/hour or mob?

For the most part you take a group of people in the level range of the mobs (or below the level range). Get the one with Aoe with high defense, and aggro a large group. Then run to the Pler and he/she will nuke them down (typically 1 shot or so).

This is not part of the mechanics but is part of Pling. I personally don't object to the PL system.
1. Leveling slowly sucks, and most of the decent content is end game. Maybe if there was more mid or low level content that was good, or level caps (another thing I don't care for) then that may change. Most MMO are grind as fast as you can to the top or near top levels, then start playing.
2. People say they never learn their jobs, However you won't learn that much of your jobs at low levels anyway. When there was slooooooooooooow leveling like we had in 11 there were still tons of 75s that had no idea how to play their job. It is up to the player to decide to learn that, leveling speed does not change that.
3. The one objection is instead of screwing with the XP and leveling system, add a skill system like in 11. Just because you powered to 99 does not make you a power house. You learned your job by skilling it up.
4. This is not FFXI, if you want FFXI type system go back to FFXI and don't enter Abyssea (that is a choice you are not forced it enter it. I like the fact that this is a Different game even if there are some similarities.

I understand that it bothers you that you want the same low level mobs to AOE so you can farm or level, well my suggestion is talk, sometimes if you want to farm some or need particular items ask if you can help and get some of the drops (not rare drop items of course). You would be surprised it happens, otherwise find a time when it is not being leveled on or find a different mob in your level range or lower.

I personally like the new system and makes for a fun, game especially when you have large groups of mobs and things go wrong lol.

Large pools in a PL group does not guarantee safety or no risk.