Alliance Raid Now iLvl Locked, Why??

[Toutatis]

This is really such an incredibly fringe situation, the person who is heavily overleveled on one job vs their MSQ progression, and somehow wants to run roulettes on that job instead of other jobs in the same role.

Is it possible that instead of there being so many people in this fringe situation, people are just asking for this because they have alts at level 50 they want to duo queue with to force CT without them leveling too much from roulettes and being locked out? Something to think about.
I would have never thought people would purposefully strip off all their gear to queue either but here we are. Some people are desperate to never run anything beyond level 50 Crystal Tower and I really don't think we should cater to those people. Especially not when the queues for newer raids suffer.

It’s not fringe at all. Many people in my EU fc are affected by this, especially new players. Running ARs used to be a fun FC activity that anyone lvl 50+ could join. People should be able to play the job they want.

The proposed solution of taking both iLvl and MSQ progress into account does not cater to people who used to iLvl cheese. Besides, you’ve got players in 660 gear with only CT unlocked.

[VerdeLuck]

It’s not fringe at all. Many people in my EU fc are affected by this, especially new players. Running ARs used to be a fun FC activity that anyone lvl 50+ could join. People should be able to play the job they want.

The proposed solution of taking both iLvl and MSQ progress into account does not cater to people who used to iLvl cheese. Besides, you’ve got players in 660 gear with only CT unlocked.

Factoring in MSQ progress creates a new cheese where someone leaves an alt at 50 pre-heavensward and just queues with it to force CT. Under this current system the people who want to do that are at least forced to level a new alt to beat ARR or gear it up if they do that too much and it hits 60+.

[PyurBlue]

Factoring in MSQ progress creates a new cheese where someone leaves an alt at 50 and just queues with it to force CT. Under this current system the people who want to do that are at least forced to level a new alt to beat ARR or gear it up if they do that too much and it hits 60+.

Why leave your alt at 50? Just never unlock anything but CT and you're good.

Already responded to this above. The change will clearly favor the probability of getting alliance raids outside of CT

It does help in that it disallows player influence, partially, but it does nothing for the natural skewing caused by CT's unique position.

Going back to player influence, that's still not completely solved as a player can just not unlock the other raids and still force CT right now.

It is not bad design when you can literally use the MB to buy gear? The game already gives these players that want to continually do AR roulette a viable solution. "They shouldn't have to spend money on gear they don't need". You don't need to do AR roulette, but if you want to, there is the MB . There is no issue with the ilvl check change. It is working as intended, and the whining from certain parts of the playerbase is proving that.



Then buy it right before the patch? It's not like this gear hasn't been out there for almost 20 weeks or anything lmao.

The MB doesn't make this less of a problem. Players are being forced into spending gil, and exist catch up systems like poetics gear are negated. Again this is not an unsolvable problem, it's just clumsy and annoying, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to point out and ask to be improved. Saying that it's working as intended is a bit of a stretch, but again it's besides the point, and you could say the same about the old system that let people force CT - it was intended that being in worse gear influenced the outcome.

The roulette being optional doesn't really matter either. The entire game is optional. We're here because we want to be, and if someone wants to roulette they should be able to roulette without needless hassle.

[Toutatis]

Factoring in MSQ progress creates a new cheese where someone leaves an alt at 50 and just queues with it to force CT. Under this current system the people who want to do that are at least forced to level a new alt to beat ARR or gear it up if they do that too much and it hits 60+.

that’s ridiculous. There’s no point playing the game like this. Why would someone play the game just to run CT?
Besides, levelling an alt to 50 takes time. Anyway, there’s not even a need for alts, just start a new job or don’t unlock other raids (even the latest BiS savage gear won’t get you anything else)
You’re just making excuses for a poorly implemented system.

This statement alone shows that you do not know anything about the endgame lmao. The crafted gear will have significantly dropped in value by the x.1 patch. Sure it will slightly go up due to the augmented upgrade, but will not go anywhere near where it starts and eventually crash again anyway. Its a non-issue. Secondly, if they are buying a level boost, they get that level's equivalent gear, so it is again another non-issue. Third, if they also buy a story boost with it, they are already on their way to accessing the free alternatives.

Case and point the alternative is there and extremely viable. If they want to continue doing the roulette, time to save up that gil!

perhaps it’s you who haven’t paid much attention. Crafted gear drops fast in the initial days and then it doesn’t fluctuate that much until the next tier is released. Atm a set of Diadochos gear remained expensive even before the most recent patch, it went up a little for a couple days and it’s back to where it was with prices well in the hundred thousand gils for each piece (chest in the 400k on some servers). Classical gear remained expensive until Rinascita gear was released and Rinascita until Diadochos.

As for the xp boost, I bought both that and a story skip to join friends on a new DC. I was lvl 90 after only 3 evenings. It’s also simply not fun having to overgear as it defeats all sense of progression.

[TomsYoungerBro]

As for the xp boost, I bought both that and a story skip to join friends on a new DC. I was lvl 90 after only 3 evenings. It’s also simply not fun having to overgear as it defeats all sense of progression.

You've already defeated the sense of progression by overleveling well past your MSQ point lol. This is comical. The salt in this thread only proves how correct this change was.

[VerdeLuck]

that’s ridiculous. There’s no point playing the game like this. Why would someone play the game just to run CT?

The entire ilvl check got added specifically because people would rather strip off their gear and get CT every day for roulettes than have a chance at any other duty in a roulette. How can you even ask this question?

[Toutatis]

The entire ilvl check got added specifically because people would rather strip off their gear and get CT every day for roulettes than have a chance at any other duty in a roulette. How can you even ask this question?

Duh! I was answering to your post about someone leveling an alt just to keep it at lvl 50-59 answering a post about a double check for lvl and msq progress. It has nothing to do with stripping down. Pls have the decency of putting things into context and drop the bad faith posts.

[Erzaa]

The entire ilvl check got added specifically because people would rather strip off their gear and get CT every day for roulettes than have a chance at any other duty in a roulette. How can you even ask this question?

So now they can force CT by overgearing instead of stripping, as long as they don't unlock any other raid. There's literally no reason to stay at 50 to force CT. Anyone can be 60 and force CT, 70 and force CT, 80 and force CT, 90 and force CT.

I don't see how this helps your argument at all, or how it disproves the idea that ilvl checks should be used in tandem with MSQ progression and unlocked Alliance Roulette checks.

[VerdeLuck]

So now they can force CT by overgearing instead of stripping, as long as they don't unlock any other raid. There's literally no reason to stay at 50 to force CT. Anyone can be 60 and force CT, 70 and force CT, 80 and force CT, 90 and force CT.

I don't see how this helps your argument at all, or how it disproves the idea that ilvl checks should be used in tandem with MSQ progression and unlocked Alliance Roulette checks.

You're completely misunderstanding me. As it stands they can do this sure, but they now have to keep buying higher level gear since running CT on their alts will level them up at a pretty high rate and they'll need to gear them as they hit 60-70-80-90.
If it were to take MSQ progress into account, someone could leave their alt before starting Heavensward, never progress their MSQ, and just queue forever for CT roulettes on that character.
In this current system the character eventually levels up and needs endgame gear, you can't just have a level 90 character pre-HW sitting at 90 and queueing for CT only every day.
Factoring in MSQ progress makes it much easier to force CT since you can just never progress MSQ and never have to worry about not meeting the requirements. That's another bit of trouble potentially brewing were they to make that change.

I swear, this forum just ignores 90% of what a post says and inserts their own ideas into it to respond to the post.

[Erzaa]

You're completely misunderstanding me. As it stands they can do this sure, but they now have to keep buying higher level gear since running CT on their alts will level them up at a pretty high rate and they'll need to gear them as they hit 60-70-80-90.
If it were to take MSQ progress into account, someone could leave their alt before starting Heavensward, never progress their MSQ, and just queue forever for CT roulettes on that character.
In this current system the character eventually levels up and needs endgame gear, you can't just have a level 90 character pre-HW sitting at 90 and queueing for CT only every day.
Factoring in MSQ progress makes it much easier to force CT since you can just never progress MSQ and never have to worry about not meeting the requirements. That's another bit of trouble potentially brewing were they to make that change.

I swear, this forum just ignores 90% of what a post says and inserts their own ideas into it to respond to the post.

Uhm... I'm not speaking for the rest of the forum or anyone else in this thread, but as far as I'm concerned... no actually, I'm trying to understand.

Your example doesn't make any sense to me. Why would someone make an alt just for this? Whether they finish their MSQ or stop at HW, they're still going to be hitting the 60/70/80/90 milestones as their XP increases running CT everyday. They'll be cap on tomes they can never spend. What's the point of not progressing past HW then?

The best and easiest solution to cheesing the ilvl is to buy a boost to 80, run it up to 90 using only CT. Then you buy gear off the MB for the minimum ilvl required for a level 90 and run CT over and over ad infinitum. So, no, I don't see how factoring MSQ changes anything about the current way the system works, except it stops punishing overleveled players.

The way you describe in your example is ilvl cheesing was something players did to make players' lives harder or to troll them. That's not why ilvl cheesing is a thing. It's a way to achieve the best rewards for the least amount of effort, hence why CT is so common. It's dead easy, it's fast, it gives lots of XP and decent tomes for everyone at any level. With that in mind, no ilvl cheeser would do what you suggest because they'd never get to Endwalker and get end game gear/rewards. Much easier to have a character at endgame level, sporting the minimum ilvl gear needed to queue with only CT unlocked and just run it every day until they cap on their tomes.

Adding the additional MSQ and Alliance Raid checks being proposed is not meant to stop ilvl cheesing. The current system also doesn't stop ilvl cheesing, it just makes it a little harder. You can't stop ilvl cheesing completely without making every raid mandatory and we already know SE isn't going to do that. The proposed solution is for overleveled players not to be punished because of ilvl cheesers.