Revelations from Patch 6.5: "Growing Light", Part 1

[Cassar]

MSQ:

I wonder if the original Golbez was Azem's shard on the Thirteenth, as per the description of Igeyorhm's interaction with him. It's slightly different from the EE's explanation of events in that the death of the Watcher triggers the Flood of Darkness, but parallels Ardbert's actions on the First. Interesting that having a Flood without a Calamity produces a Void.

MSQ spoilers:

How much more confirmation do you need? This is all the confirmation that we're gonna get that the original Golbez was Azem of the 13th, and he died during the war. His soul is inside that crystal, so I suppose we could rejoin with it in the future?
Also makes for an interesting parallel between Ardbert and Golbez, both got tricked by Ascians and almost destroyed their respective worlds. Makes you wonder, do the Ascians always go for the Azem of each shard (maybe expectedly, since they all happened to collect more crystal blessings from Hydaelyn) and trick them into destroying their own world? Is that what happened to all the rejoined reflections?

And Cleretic, you might be right about the dragon tease at the end. It definitely would make sense that Vrtra's siblings would respond and make for a cute ending to the tale. I still think we're going to Meracydia tho
Also, will Azdaja ever recover her original form? Or will she permanently be baby dragon?

[Lyth]

...

The EE provides a slightly different description of events:

'In the Thirteenth, Igeyorhm's power proved too much for the inexperienced Bringer of Light and their one-sided battles eventually resulted in a Flood of Darkness consuming the entire world and rendering it a nigh-empty void.' - Encyclopedia Eorzea Vol. 1, p.213

If the description still holds, then it sounds like Igeyorhm simply found a level 1 Azem on the Thirteenth and killed them before they had the chance to gain strength, and then went on to trick their future allies. It could be a slight retcon, though, and perhaps Golbez is that very shard. Hard to tell without them actually commenting further.

[Cassar]

The EE provides a slightly different description of events:

'In the Thirteenth, Igeyorhm's power proved too much for the inexperienced Bringer of Light and their one-sided battles eventually resulted in a Flood of Darkness consuming the entire world and rendering it a nigh-empty void.' - Encyclopedia Eorzea Vol. 1, p.213

If the description still holds, then it sounds like Igeyorhm simply found a level 1 Azem on the Thirteenth and killed them before they had the chance to gain strength, and then went on to trick their future allies. It could be a slight retcon, though, and perhaps Golbez is that very shard. Hard to tell without them actually commenting further.

That's very interesting, I had no idea the EE ever even mentioned any of this.

I have to imagine this must have been a case of "The encyclopedia was written by in-game scholars and the information wasn't accurate", because according to Durante/Golbez, it was because of him that the void was formed. It would make sense that the scholars wouldn't know this, considering we, the Scions, are probably the first people to ever hear about how the void actually came to be.
But again, the fact that in 6.4 we saw through the eyes of Golbez, and with the captions written in that specific way where there's no text box + the fact that here in 6.5 Durante looked at us and saw Golbez during the memory leaves no room for doubt in my opinion.

I'm not sure that the actual Golbez ever dealt with Igeyorhm or if it was only Durante-as-Golbez later. I may need to rewatch the explanation.

You're right actually, that was my mistake. The Golbez that fucked up was actually Durante, and not the original Golbez/Azem, so nevermind what I said about Azem always messing up.

Now the only thing left that's really bugging me is what I said earlier about how we never went back to Zero's abode in the 13th after the game telling us that "we wouldn't be able to return for a long time" back in 6.2. I was certain that would be the conclusion, and we would get more information about the statue that the game made such a big deal about.

[NekoMataMata]

Myths

The main theme is a bit cliche, but it was a cute series when you think about it. I remember being a bit annoyed post Euphrosyne at the idea of dragging my new pet deities out into the overworld, but it was a nice build up looking back. I felt a bit of sadness watching the twelve decide to leave. Watching Deryk falter, and choose to continue on as a regular man after his Opo-opo friend stops him was also just really cute.

The past lives backstory was unnecessary, and it really only serves as a reason for them to return to the star. I feel like they could've created a different reason and it'd be fine.

MSQ

The only way I can sum up the MSQ is good ideas, but poor execution. There just wasn't enough time for us to get emotional invested. Not entirely sure how I feel about the Lunar Subterrane's structure either. I did feel something at least, but it wasn't as impactful as it should have been due to the lack of proper build up. I felt absolutely nothing for Zeromus. No real sense of urgency or anything. It really felt like a Zodiark clone outside of the music. This mini arc just felt way too rushed from around 6.2 to now.

[Iscah]

MSQ

Well now.

The recommendations to do Eden certainly paid off by the end, but in the first half it felt like they'd forgotten to put in some quest flags. There just needed to be something in there early on to the effect of "Gaia is doing well", like we as her friend would presumably ask, or indeed Ryne would be likely to let us know whether we asked or not. (Gaia does get one passing mention if you talk to Ryne while you're exploring Eulmore, but it still feels off.)

Also, even if Cyella and Unukalhai do have updated dialogue now post-quest, they needed to get it sooner. At very least they needed an extra dialogue update (or the same one sooner) at the point where you go back to the Crystarium to deliver the memoria crystal to Ryne - doubly so if we picked the dialogue option to mention them to Zero, so she's asked us to send word to them - but it's also thoroughly frustrating that earlier you can talk to Cyella and have her remarking she'd like to meet Zero sometime, while Zero is standing just outside in the Exhedra.

Overall though, it definitely feels like we're angling towards a big restoring-the-void sidequest with them in future.

On the rest of the MSQ...

Little visual things, but it bugs me that Nahbdeen is still in full armour when he's clearly off-duty at a banquet.

The dungeon was interesting, but that constant white memory effect over the screen was quite unpleasant to have lasting for two thirds of the dungeon.

I still really want to get Durante's ever-so-pretty hairstyle available for player characters.

I feel like the battle with Durante needed more dramatic music than reusing the one from the past few final dungeon bosses. I don't mind it being reused, it just wasn't the right thing for the moment.

Neat little FFIV callback: Estinien being the one who takes on Barbariccia in the four fiends battle, given that Kain is the one who can break through her defences in the original.

Has the internet datamined the entire appearance of Erenville's mystery visitor yet? I wouldn't be surprised. On the other hand, if I was a game designer and knew full well that people would be digging up the rest of the character's model, I'd be tempted to make something really fake and ridiculous for their not-shown parts.

Edit: Apparently the top half of the model is missing entirely.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...at_the_end_of/

Replies to other comments re. MSQ

Oh yeah, and of course: GAIA! See, we didn't have to make Eden compulsory to have her around and a fun scene contributor!

While I would have to compare notes with other people to be sure, or test it with a character who hasn't finished Eden, I'm fairly sure that scene would end just before Gaia's grand entrance if you haven't done Eden. I checked the quest script on Garland - there's an alternate post-scene comment from Ryne that I assume she says if Gaia isn't there, and Gaia doesn't seem to exist in the main quest script at all, even though she should be listed due to having stand-and-chat dialogue afterwards.

...also, wow, Igeyorhm is pronounced like that?

Hah, I had that pronounced right, more or less, but for me it was "wait, it's Crystahrium not Crystairium?"

Makes sense that it's pronounced like "crystal", I guess, but... hmm.

Was I the only one who thought that the roar we heard in the distance was a tease to Meracydia?

It just seems to me to be an "I'm home" call between all of the First Brood siblings. A nice touch.

I heard there might be some additional bits for the Warring Triad and Eden... though I didn't see anything for the former I'm glad there was something for the latter given what we were dealing with.

I'm not sure that we got any dialogue that would have changed if you only did Warring Triad itself and not the following quests that bring Unukalhai to the Crystarium, but if you've done those then there are a few connections across.

There were at least two dialogue mentions of him by name, one of them voiced, and an extra dialogue choice in the last scene with Zero, plus obliquely with Beq Lugg being indignant about us asking them to extract "another" soul from a spirit vessel - the first having been Unukalhai if you already brought him across.

This story relies too much on homage to make it work, which was an issue with the Omega raid series as well. A good homage doesn't need to be a direct re-enactment. It's more interesting when you introduce a concept and take it in a different direction.

Zero's decision to absorb the light on the first was a good example of that. There's no point keeping it as a last minute 'surprise', as people can instantly identify the Cecil reference from the patch trailer itself.

Not having played any of the things it is referencing, I've never felt like Omega had a problem with its reliance on homages in the fights, because the fights are so disconnected from the plot. The rest of the time, aside of it being clearly an excuse plot to stage a whole lot of disconnected simulation battles of foes they can't easily incorporate into the plot elsewise, the actual plot feels extremely original to FFXIV and does a lot to drive various characters forward.

Meanwhile, although I get that the specific "transforming to paladin" moment for Zero is a Cecil reference, the "reaching out to absorb the Light" thing feels like her own.

On the other hand, Ivalice is far far more dense in its homaging, and particularly the amount of what seems (as a non-player) to be "let us stop and spend a lengthy amount of time explaining the thing you will only appreciate because you know what we are referencing, but is otherwise dry and uninteresting history about characters who have no impact on the plot".

[Golbez's] soul is inside that crystal, so I suppose we could rejoin with it in the future?
Also makes for an interesting parallel between Ardbert and Golbez, both got tricked by Ascians and almost destroyed their respective worlds.

Also, will Azdaja ever recover her original form? Or will she permanently be baby dragon?

I don't want a "collect all our soul shards" plot, but yes, having the memoria crystal stored leaves the door open for it to happen.

I'm not sure that the actual Golbez ever dealt with Igeyorhm or if it was only Durante-as-Golbez later. I may need to rewatch the explanation.


As for Azdaja, I think it's quite possible that she will "eventually" recover her true form in the same way that Midgardsormr will "eventually" wake up from his nap - it will happen, but there's no guarantee that it will happen within the game's lifespan.

On the other hand, chibi-minion-Midgardsormr upgraded to ridable-mount-Midgardsormr within the space of a single expansion, so she might do the same.

The EE provides a slightly different description of events

The question is, where - in universe - does EE get that information? If anywhere solid then it may be coming via Unukalhai's understanding of events, which would not account for the actual, final cause of the Flood being something he was unaware of.

I am a bit surprised that the Doman Shaman uses cnj skills and not geomancy aka ast skills.

Actually the AST questline and Swallow's Compass dungeon both pretty strongly ties geomancers to conjury skills - earth, wind and water being the three key elements for both disciplines. Going from memory, but I'm pretty sure Kyokuho acts as a conjurer in quest battles as well.

Myths of the Realm - I'm only up to waiting to get into the raid, but it's too late at night to get a party together.

To the surprise of nobody, Deryk is Oschon. I know people were commenting previously about Thaliak getting such an odd redesign from other depictions of him, but I wonder if they were trying to make him not look like Oschon? Though really it would make more sense to just switch the designs in that case, have Thaliak look like the statues and Oschon look more like what Deryk was wearing. (Edit to add: and that would also add up better with their corresponding PVP themed outfits – Thaliak's being more revealing and Oschon's almost entirely covered up if you wear the entire outfit. Although his appearance here is at least using the shorts and bow, which I think is more than Thaliak got.)

If you talk to the gods when given the chance, it seems your patron deity will acknowledge you specially. Or Menphina does, at least.

Side note: Island Sanctuary - just hit rank 18

I swear they must be trying to make the nasty little furball as unlikeable as possible. "I don't care what you do, but I suppose I can feign interest," it says. Really? And then it acts like I ought to be grateful to it for... whatever it actually does on the island besides stand there and insult me.

Then again, I'm only (barely) feigning interest in the whole tedious island enterprise, so I suppose the feeling is mutual.

And the cabin "upgrade" is a downgrade. Why is my bed back to being shoved in the corner of the ground floor after finally getting the upstairs to myself (more or less) last time?

Also, I don't understand why their go-to option for making workers "endearing" is to make them lazy and disinterested in their job.

[Lyth]

...

MSQ:

I took the 'reaching out to the crystal' scene to be a direct reference to Mount Ordeals, down to Zero's reflection in the crystal.

These are not bad moments, when taken in isolation, especially if you go in a new direction with them. Namedropping places like Baron and Troia is one thing, because they're just names at the end of the day. But if you have a lot of these transplanted scenes it just feels like the writer is trying to build a story off of a bunch of pre-existing checkpoints.

And it's possible that the EE is just a text by an Eorzean author, and thus fallible (especially if that's the same book that the Loporrits were relying on). I just don't have enough to go on to draw a firm conclusion about Azem's shard on the Thirteenth at this time.

/tenrabbits

[Iscah]

MSQ:

I took the 'reaching out to the crystal' scene to be a direct reference to Mount Ordeals, down to Zero's reflection in the crystal.

It's been a while since I've played FFIV...

All I remember of him transforming was that he pulled a sword from a stone or something? Anyway, it worked fine for Zero in the moment.

[SannaR]

MSQ

First baby Azdaja is super cute. I Probably could have done without the while you fought Zeromus echo. It was nice seeing Zero understand and apply the lesson she learned in Garlemald when it came to using the Crystal Tower in the 1st. I chose to tease Ryne about coffee biscuits just to see if she'd call us Gaia or not. I loved that Beq Lugg didn't grumble at us this time about stuffing a person into a soul vessel.


I was kind of surprised that Durante got redemption. Though it makes sense as he's supposed to be following IV's Golbez character arc. I find it a little funny that whenever Thancred isn't around to save our bacon from out of nowhere it's Estinien. Either the high pitch of Nahbdeen's jp voice is how it gets when he's drunk and passionate about something or it's been so long since he was last voiced that I didn't remember him sounding like that. I thought it was cute that even if small Varshahn was capable of the things tall Varshahn was that he wouldn't care. I can't believe Estinien really is Batman and Commissioner Gordoned us and Y'shtola. Which to me is the only reason we had that party at Mehryde's Meyhane and not at the Meghaduta as I'm sure there were enough chairs. It does feel odd that at least in JP Zero mentions names instead of just places. I like how she says Urianger. I must have missed it when Igeyorhm is spoken in the JP version. I probably was slightly distracted at the time. Anyone know if Gaia shows up at all at the end of the farewell in the 1st if you haven't done Eden or progressed enough through it? Or if she does what the line choices are? I chose the "don't remember me" option. I loved that Ryne mentions her when you're in Eulmore and thar you can finally outright mention Cylva and Unukalhai.

Vrtra my dragon... for the love of the light just because you can spend a lot of time outside of your original body doesn't mean you should. Somehow I didn't notice the two reply roars. You can find out that Hraesvelgr heard it if you talk with Vidofnir. I'm not sure if he says it after everything is done but if you go to the Watcher post trial he will state joy that we were able to use her light again to help with the 13th. Loved how both Y'shtola and Runar hinted at that they wanted to mention the other. I guess Y'shtola is slowly becoming the next person Estinien is going to become afraid of as I couldn't help but laugh at him and the WoL giving that short nod in a "Yes, ma'am!" in regards to how the original Nixie incantation finished. Would we call that Azdaja ball her soul then? As if so then that has to be the 1st time we've seen a dragon's soul that didn't look like a small version of them. Is the mystery person the new caster job only? Or both the new job and a female Hrothga? If they'restill somewhat sticking with them being based off of X's Ronso then those feet are the right size.

Myths

I'm not sure how anyone didn't think that the 12 were going to leave at the end of this. It was heavily hinted at from the start. Yay Deyrk got to stay and wander some more. That baby opo-opo really tugged at some strings looking so melancholic. It's interesting that some of the 12 were seen as great candidates for convocation slots. Hythlodaeus was carefree... you don't say... Emet-Selch's this has to be something any Azem would do line makes even more sense with us learning that Venat and the man who would become Rhalgr basically punched a meteor that was going to cause a lot of damage. I loved how Llymlean went "yes finally its MY TURN to meet the mortals" and Thaliak chided her. Then to find out that of course he's the one to have became the scholar if he was the guy in charge of Akadaemia Anyder. I wonder if he recruited the others that also had worked there. Only one thing wasn't answered and that's why are there mandragoras in the Heaven of Water?

The npcs you do Skalla and Ghimlyt Dark with feel a bit weird and I'm not sure I like them. The whole thing about Skalla was it was partly supposed to be a friendly race to the treasure. It's why Arenvald makes that comment about how our way in was faster. I do miss the temporary transformation part of Skalla. I don't mind having J'Moldva in the group though. Just wish we wouldn't have both Arenvald and Alphinaud with us. Kind of the same thing with having Hien and Yugiri for Ghimlyt Dark. They originally break off from your group and come back in later. Now it seems that Lyse is always the one who does the LB3 on that last monster. Hien in the Burn and Ghimlyt tanks just by sheer presence. I am a bit surprised that the Doman Shaman uses cnj skills and not geomancy aka ast skills.

Island Sanctuary so far only 16 and only opened up the newest cave area that branches off from the old cave area. I think Iscah is right sort of when it comes to whom the Island is for as it seems as though the one who opened the cave wants to use the crystals to leave and was disappointed in that it didn't lead to a place off the island. The vacation mammet minion hints that it's supposed to teach the others in how to relax. Who knows, maybe they'll end up leaving mostly at the end of all of this.

Custom Delivery

Of course Sharlyean is that kind of bureaucracy. Where anything that would be seen as a life comforts item would be deemed as unnecessary. I haven't done anything past the need to make or get something for the cats yet. When I saw the picture of the npc that kicks this off I had forgotten that he's the guy who wanted embarrassing stories of the twins parents.

[Tehmon]

I am in a mood so let's go.

Myths

1. I am bothered by the fact that we are at this position again where we are keepers of super ultra secret information about the world of Eorzea. It's starting to become a nuisance to the world-building and my immersion, when this really quite important information is kept under wraps, and we cannot see how the world would react to that information. I guess it's not important at all and I'm making a huge deal about nothing, but my god does it aggravate me. In this case, if the Twelve are ever referenced even a little bit, it just feels like we, the important smart people, know the truth about them and we are just surrounded by idiots who don't know any better. I don't like that. I'd like the world around my character to be a bit more in the know about what's going on, because then we can have a healthy (or less healthy, but interesting nonetheless) dialogue about these huge things that happen in the story.

2. Watcher has nothing to say about finishing the AR quest. Of course he doesn't. What even is Watcher's function anymore? He has lost both of his jobs at this point. Is he retiring? Hopefully they don't kill him off, I'm quite fond of him, it's okay to have FEW ancient relics in the sundered world Yoshi-P...

3. I still do not understand how the Twelve are able to pass on to the aetherial sea as if they were the people they once were, with souls intact and all. Deryk also speaks as if he is going to meet them again when his time comes to pass. I feel like I need someone to make me a graph on how this is all possible. Or is their '' passing '' supposed to be just symbolic and are they speaking figuratively?

4. Why couldn't they just tell us that they wanted to pass on? Why were they so secretive, was this another Crystal Exarch situation where if they had revealed their true intentions, we wouldn't have helped them? Or that we wouldn't have fought as hard? Before the release of the patch, I was thinking they literally CAN'T talk about who they are and what they want, and why they couldn't do that would be related to the unknown last deity. But nah, it was much less interesting than that. Them being secretive feels forced and unnecessary and doesn't add anything to the story. Sure, we are somewhat ambushed in the last phase of the alliance raid, but it wasn't that cool of a moment to need all this mystery and secrecy.

[SannaR]

I am in a mood so let's go.

Myths

1. I am bothered by the fact that we are at this position again where we are keepers of super ultra secret information about the world of Eorzea. It's starting to become a nuisance to the world-building and my immersion, when this really quite important information is kept under wraps, and we cannot see how the world would react to that information. I guess it's not important at all and I'm making a huge deal about nothing, but my god does it aggravate me. In this case, if the Twelve are ever referenced even a little bit, it just feels like we, the important smart people, know the truth about them and we are just surrounded by idiots who don't know any better. I don't like that. I'd like the world around my character to be a bit more in the know about what's going on, because then we can have a healthy (or less healthy, but interesting nonetheless) dialogue about these huge things that happen in the story.

3. I still do not understand how the Twelve are able to pass on to the aetherial sea as if they were the people they once were, with souls intact and all. Deryk also speaks as if he is going to meet them again when his time comes to pass. I feel like I need someone to make me a graph on how this is all possible. Or is their '' passing '' supposed to be just symbolic and are they speaking figuratively?

4. Why couldn't they just tell us that they wanted to pass on? Why were they so secretive, was this another Crystal Exarch situation where if they had revealed their true intentions, we wouldn't have helped them? Or that we wouldn't have fought as hard? Before the release of the patch, I was thinking they literally CAN'T talk about who they are and what they want, and why they couldn't do that would be related to the unknown last deity. But nah, it was much less interesting than that. Them being secretive feels forced and unnecessary and doesn't add anything to the story. Sure, we are somewhat ambushed in the last phase of the alliance raid, but it wasn't that cool of a moment to need all this mystery and secrecy.

Answer to both questions of point 4

Yes to both. It literally was another Crystal Exarch situation. Not everyone is going to give it their all in these kinds of situations. To point 1 look at Ishgard they just recently got told the war they had been fighting for one thousand years was based on a lie. Now go and tell them that Halone was an ancient construct of sorts that fought you, doesn't like how their prayers made her into a goddess of war and then left. Or anyone who didn't believe in the twelve. Sorry the kami and any other religious figures aren't real. Sucks to be you bro. Yes, it would have been a messy thing to tackle, but it kind of misses the entire point.