Red Mages 6.5 Job Adjustment feels Insulting

[Rychu]

"Blah, Blah, Summoner, Blah, Blah, Mobility, Blah Blah, Rez Tax"

Yeah I get it, everyone in this forum is probably tired of Red Mages complaining about how they are balanced compared to other jobs (specifically Summoner), but the recent potency changes and explanation from the developers feels more insulting.

For the uninitiated, the explanation the devs gave for the small potency changes to RDM for 6.5 was "Red mage is a DPS job that can also support the party by way of Dualcast in conjunction with actions such as Verraise and Magick Barrier. Bearing this in mind, we still believe there is room to increase their damage output, and so we've raised the potency of a number of their attacks."

This has now completely confirmed the community speculation as to why Summoner deals more damage than Red Mage despite being as mobile as a physr and just flat out easier to pilot.

How is it fair to Red Mage players get told they are the prog mage, or that they are the "save the entire party with rezzes" mage when every mechanic in the current raid tier is a body check?

Even if you got lucky and was able to rez someone in a spot that didn't have a body check, people don't even factor in the personal tax on the RDM. 2400 mana is an absurdly high amount of mana to pay when we are capped at 10000. If you rez 2 or 3 people, you are just fucked on mana for the rest of the fight. I never hear anyone talk about this, Red mage is the only caster where mana is just a struggle for an entire fight since lucid dream is our only way of getting mana back. Black mage has ice phase and Summoner's spells have so little mana requirement that you barely have to pay attention to lucid dream to be fine. Im not even factoring in the dps loss.

Red Mage used to be an amazingly designed job with great synergy between its spells. Why does embolden only boost our magic damage but boosts your party member's total damage? Fleche and contre sixte are both physical so they get no benefit from trying to be tactical and drift it properly into the burst window. Why does sprint or popping ethers or pots use up a dualcast? Why do people say that Red Mage is designed around casual content when no one who exclusively plays casual content would be playing well enough to break the balance of the game anyways?

And I swear, if I find out the devs tax RDM's for Ver Cure imma...Idk shit in a bush or something who cares it's a video game

TLDR: Change Ver Raise to a charge system with a hefty cooldown and no mana requirement or just take it away and give everyone phoenix downs

[GoatOfWar]

Meanwhile the tanks turning into clones with the constant potency buffs.
Can't wait for Dark knight to get 4 billion self healing per second too now that their lack of sustain is no longer warranted by having higher dps >.>

[Silverquick]

Honestly I don't know about that, I find RDM more mobile than the current SMN.

Sure they're both Mobile, but I can move around and dodge mechanics better on RDM than SMN with the way the Summons now work. Some of them have some seriously long casting times in comparison now. It's not completely stationary like BLM... but its also not nearly as mobile as RDM now.

RDMs do have superior Res ability, SMN its a one shot deal with Swift Cast, I can pull out 2-3 Verraise in that time. And RDM Vercures still work, unlike SMN Physik.

But yes, SMN does have superior AoE and Single Target DMG.

That said... its also not the SMN of old anymore that could just drift around the battlefield like it was nothing. I've been playing SMN since Heavensward and RDM since Stormblood. They are the two characters I bring up to max level every expansion.

[SaberMaxwell]

Am I high or are we not talking about the same SMN? The one with no cast times on 90% of their kit now with summons now acting as glorified battle actions making action ghosting practically a thing of the past, the one who is chosen 9 times out of 10 these days because they're almost as mobile as a physical ranged.

That SMN dwarfs RDM's pitiful mobility. I'm surprised anyone would even try to make that argument when even a well played BLM can run circles around a RDM.

[Silverquick]

No really, once you hit 90th, there's a lot more to SMN.

Sure you can summon instantly... but the rest of the powers underneath those aren't so fast anymore. Specifically Garuda and Ifrit. Ifrit powers were already long cast, Garuda the powers cast fast, but are dependent upon laying down your AoE DoT field first, with the DoT running underneath them, otherwise they're not that strong. And the DoT has a long cast time. Titan isn't so bad those are still insta-cast, but the others... well not so much. Bahamut and Phoenix still are mobile, but those are only in between all the others... which you have to use in the mean time.

I didn't realize just how much they cut down the mobility of the SMN until I played that Barbaricia one... I couldn't get off damn near anything, other than the base summons for Ifrit and could not lay down my DoT for Garuda except once or twice, otherwise I was running for my life around the battlefield only able to get off a Fester or two.

RDM, Was only a very short cast time for the first one, then sliding dual cast for the second.

Again this is not the summoner of old guys...

[Kuroka]

Im actually happy for my RDM as is and dont want change, i like being a Ressmage in dire situations, to me i like its design as is.

[Ggwppino]

No really, once you hit 90th, there's a lot more to SMN.

Sure you can summon instantly... but the rest of the powers underneath those aren't so fast anymore. Specifically Garuda and Ifrit. Ifrit powers were already long cast, Garuda the powers cast fast, but are dependent upon laying down your AoE DoT field first, with the DoT running underneath them, otherwise they're not that strong. And the DoT has a long cast time. Titan isn't so bad those are still insta-cast, but the others... well not so much. Bahamut and Phoenix still are mobile, but those are only in between all the others... which you have to use in the mean time.

I didn't realize just how much they cut down the mobility of the SMN until I played that Barbaricia one... I couldn't get off damn near anything, other than the base summons for Ifrit and could not lay down my DoT for Garuda except once or twice, otherwise I was running for my life around the battlefield only able to get off a Fester or two.

RDM, Was only a very short cast time for the first one, then sliding dual cast for the second.

Again this is not the summoner of old guys...

I don't understand what the difficulty was of using swiftcast on garuda honestly. Currently the smn has 6 seconds of cast for every 60 seconds of rotation. It's quite strange to say that the RDM has more mobility especially when in savage and ultimate it has more difficulty than blm. If you then perhaps find it difficult to use smn, for goodness sake, that's perfectly fine even if it's quite difficult to imagine. Barbariccia also doesn't have any mechanics that force you to run like a madman so much so that you can't place 6 seconds of cast whenever you want in 60 seconds.

[Rychu]

No really, once you hit 90th, there's a lot more to SMN.

Sure you can summon instantly... but the rest of the powers underneath those aren't so fast anymore. Specifically Garuda and Ifrit. Ifrit powers were already long cast, Garuda the powers cast fast, but are dependent upon laying down your AoE DoT field first, with the DoT running underneath them, otherwise they're not that strong. And the DoT has a long cast time. Titan isn't so bad those are still insta-cast, but the others... well not so much. Bahamut and Phoenix still are mobile, but those are only in between all the others... which you have to use in the mean time.

I didn't realize just how much they cut down the mobility of the SMN until I played that Barbaricia one... I couldn't get off damn near anything, other than the base summons for Ifrit and could not lay down my DoT for Garuda except once or twice, otherwise I was running for my life around the battlefield only able to get off a Fester or two.

RDM, Was only a very short cast time for the first one, then sliding dual cast for the second.

Again this is not the summoner of old guys...

Ay bud, this is by no means a dig at your capabilities or meant to be disrespectful, but current Summoner at 90 is a fucking joke to the caster name. You have exactly 4 casts per minute (2 Ifrit single targets, 1 Garuda Slipstream, and 1 Ruin III). Ruin III is even only a 1.5 second cast time and you can always swiftcast any of the remaining three 2.5 sec casts, bringing the overall times that you *HAVE* to sit still and cast to a resounding 6.5 seconds every 60s (This isn't even factoring in slide casting). Plus you can always rearrange the gems to always have ifrit at points where you don't have mechanics that you have to resolve.

Everything else is an instant cast, if you are having a hard time getting those 4 casts off then...shit I don't even know I can't even fathom that being too hard to manage.

[SaberMaxwell]

Between Garuda and Ifrit and Swiftcast, summoner has 3 casts per minute. They're long casts, sure, but they are few, far between, and you can arrange your legos how you like to avoid casting at inopportune times. ShB summoner was pretty mobile too I'll grant but it had nothing on modern summoner especially with having to take action ghosting into account.

They should hamstring summoner back down to RDM/BLM level though. Or at least much nearer to. There's no reason for it to have so many instant casts. Heck, if their mobility was similar then you'd see a lot more of the other casters I would argue, because SMN's primary benefit and why it sees more use than both of its peers combined is its sheer ease of use and its mobility is definitely a huge part of that.

[Silverquick]

Ay bud, this is by no means a dig at your capabilities or meant to be disrespectful, but current Summoner at 90 is a fucking joke to the caster name. You have exactly 4 casts per minute (2 Ifrit single targets, 1 Garuda Slipstream, and 1 Ruin III). Ruin III is even only a 1.5 second cast time and you can always swiftcast any of the remaining three 2.5 sec casts, bringing the overall times that you *HAVE* to sit still and cast to a resounding 6.5 seconds every 60s (This isn't even factoring in slide casting). Plus you can always rearrange the gems to always have ifrit at points where you don't have mechanics that you have to resolve.

Everything else is an instant cast, if you are having a hard time getting those 4 casts off then...shit I don't even know I can't even fathom that being too hard to manage.

That's a big assumption... as in... that I actually am having problems.

I didn't say that,

I said... I find RDM to be much more mobile now than the SMN.

If you don't dont like that... well TS, I play both. I am telling you whether you like it or not, that the SMN is no longer as mobile as it used to be. You never had those types of casting times with Summoner before. Everything outside of Ruin III was insta-cast... Now you do. Whether you like what I'm telling you or not, is not my problem.

RDM is much smoother and more consistent in mobility now.