What's going on Frontlines?

[Valence]

Cutting up each and every problem and examining them in isolation doesn't mean anything, because you'll never encounter these things in isolation in a match. Offering cookie-cutter advice to dealing with them doesn't mean anything, because Frontlines isn't a vacuum. That's just the way it is.

You can try these, and should, because there's good advice to be had, but if they were just fix-all's and worked every time, I don't think we'd be here right now.

See, I'd agree with that statement, because it's the same in CC, and I'm sick of people using the same cookiee cutter, perfect scenario replies. However, the problem I have right now, is that I can't relate at all.

Like, I agreed with some points actually, but some like shields? I never had any issue with shields? Shields are inconsequential, what matters in FLs is crowd control and catching people so they're screwed in the middle of your blob, or out of position (with your blob pouncing on them). That's pretty much all there is to it. I'm honestly curious how you find shields a problem, how you find tank invulns even a problem either. Tank pops invuln, yeah, so what? Kill another target. Why are they getting away with it could be the better question to ask. Getting caught by salted earth? Just guard. How hard is even just pressing a guard button? What other point does even intersect with this to make this invalid somehow? I'm genuinely trying to think of situations that would compound otherwise, but I can't.

Now, if the actual point is "i can't punish the stupid BH5 DRG everytime I try to stun them once they're back down", then yeah, fortunately, you can't truly hope having a 100% success rate at this, and if you had, then nobody would use DRG like that anymore (or perhaps they still would if it allows them to kill multiples each time... but harder to pull without BH).

[Mayhemmer]

See, I'd agree with that statement, because it's the same in CC, and I'm sick of people using the same cookiee cutter, perfect scenario replies. However, the problem I have right now, is that I can't relate at all.

I'm honestly curious how you find shields a problem, how you find tank invulns even a problem either. Tank pops invuln, yeah, so what? Kill another target. Why are they getting away with it could be the better question to ask. Getting caught by salted earth? Just guard. How hard is even just pressing a guard button? What other point does even intersect with this to make this invalid somehow? I'm genuinely trying to think of situations that would compound otherwise, but I can't.

Because the jobs that people are taking the most issue with are the ones that benefit the most from these things? Because they're busted...? You can't punish the DRG when they smash elusive jump to get out of grab range before they even come down from LB client-side for everyone else. You can't rush after them because you're going straight into a blender blob, and even if you did, they're 50%+ hp shield PLUS FL dmg reductions means you're basically doing nothing to them. You can't just guard the salted earth because of the DNC dashing up to punish you when you do. Sure, the DNC may die, but if that doesn't happen in time, that's a good chunk of an alliance dead.

The most you can do is dance just outside another team's range and try to bait them so they waste the burst, which rarely works anyway, because the dives are always deep into your team, not the very edge of it.

[Valence]

I've never seen those premades being a real problem on my end, and I do feel people grossly inflate the so called advantage because they die to basics and think the first DRG with LB5 has to automatically be in a premade, else they wouldn't be able to pull that off, amaright?

Because the jobs that people are taking the most issue with are the ones that benefit the most from these things? Because they're busted...? You can't punish the DRG when they smash elusive jump to get out of grab range before they even come down from LB client-side for everyone else. You can't rush after them because you're going straight into a blender blob, and even if you did, they're 50%+ hp shield PLUS FL dmg reductions means you're basically doing nothing to them. You can't just guard the salted earth because of the DNC dashing up to punish you when you do. Sure, the DNC may die, but if that doesn't happen in time, that's a good chunk of an alliance dead.

The most you can do is dance just outside another team's range and try to bait them so they waste the burst, which rarely works anyway, because the dives are always deep into your team, not the very edge of it.

See, I can't relate because I punish DRGs regularly and I don't have server issues with them being away before I can do it (I totally agree that servers regularly shit the bed with that many players though, it's bad). If you want to punish DRGs coming out of LB reliably, just stun them there. They're literally in the middle of your team and will get nuked by everybody provided they don't leap away. If you want to secure this because people are slow, use a WAR or a MNK, or even a DRK. MNK has the best results, but they all hard counter it very well. Granted, you'll calm the DRG and get points for their BH5, but they'll still have turned the game by killing 5 people.

I don't disagree that this job is absolutely disgusting in how it can turn games in FLs though. But I still do feel a lot of people just don't know how to defend it.

DNC is a specific cases I have yet to see used well even by premades, but yeah, if it happens, that's bad. Imo it's the only thing that totally negates the defensive options people have against DRGs, and the reason we dont see it more is because people just don't need it, their victims don't even defend themselves.

[Xylira]

I've never seen those premades being a real problem on my end, and I do feel people grossly inflate the so called advantage because they die to basics and think the first DRG with LB5 has to automatically be in a premade, else they wouldn't be able to pull that off, amaright?

Have you considered that maybe you've never seen those premades as being a problem is because the datacenter you play on and the times you PvP?

Because I can tell you with certainty that on the Crystal Datacenter it's not uncommon to end up matched against try-hard premade groups consisting of two or more DRK, DRG, and/or AST, especially if you queue during evenings and weekends.

[Mawlzy]

I've never seen those premades being a real problem on my end, and I do feel people grossly inflate the so called advantage because they die to basics and think the first DRG with LB5 has to automatically be in a premade, else they wouldn't be able to pull that off, amaright?

I definitely think it's fair that a more experienced player will have far less trouble with premades. But that highlights the issue I'm worried about. Mogtome events are an ideal time to introduce new players to FL. Such players are pretty easy to spot: they move less and react slower. During the last event, my experience on Aether was many battles being incredibly one-sided. A look at the K/D/A tended to reveal why. So sure, if you like, "it's a skill issue." Many things are. But in order to grow the game, the last thing we need is rookies getting placed on an uneven playing field, particularly when the current balance makes certain 4-person compositions execution squads for learning players.

[Valence]

I definitely think it's fair that a more experienced player will have far less trouble with premades. But that highlights the issue I'm worried about. Mogtome events are an ideal time to introduce new players to FL. Such players are pretty easy to spot: they move less and react slower. During the last event, my experience on Aether was many battles being incredibly one-sided. A look at the K/D/A tended to reveal why. So sure, if you like, "it's a skill issue." Many things are. But in order to grow the game, the last thing we need is rookies getting placed on an uneven playing field, particularly when the current balance makes certain 4-person compositions execution squads for learning players.

That's been more or less my point, it's not about premades that much (I have seen the premades on my DC don't worry, the day i'll freak out about them is when they start fielding a coordinated dancer with the stack), it's about skill differences, and how certain combos and things behave extremely differently depending on the skill level of who is on the receiving end.

[Mayhemmer]

I've never seen those premades being a real problem on my end,-

Good for you, I guess.

Meanwhile, everywhere else, every other match: