This game needs to be harder

[sindriiisgaming]

2 - Ego problems

Many players just want harder content just to boast and enlarge their ego, for example se can make the most difficult job and this player will beam line straight for it, and consently complain why its difficult, which then they will start requesting the job to change to "their" idea....which btw result in being the same as every other job...

i dont want harder dungeons, im thurally against them because itd make my reclears a nightmare./ i want more checks on players so they cant come in, semi afk, ignore there jobs tooltips and make the experience miserable for everyone else. idm teaching ppl. but im not here to literally carry you

[TheMightyMollusk]

I feel like the game doesn't need to be harder, necessarily, but it could stand to be more engaging. Which is probably dipping into semantics, but hear me out. There should not be roadblocks and frustratingly difficult fights in casual content, but it shouldn't be so braindead either. There's a balance between having to use your full kit while still being able to clear with a group of random strangers, and the game struggles with finding it.

[Shurrikhan]

i wish jobs all started at level 1. i feel genuinly sad i couldn't take my rpr/sage from 1-90. it was so hard to learn because of it

While I wouldn't hate this (as long as Reaper were revised not to be so damned dull for virtually all levels below its starting point), if you were having so much trouble learning without taking small steps from the start, you could have just taken the level 70 Sage into Sastasha and have been just as Sastasha-level as everyone else. So on and so forth...

Virtually all the useful parts of starting at low level... are still available to you even when starting at a higher level.

[Kosachi]

I feel like the game doesn't need to be harder, necessarily, but it could stand to be more engaging. Which is probably dipping into semantics, but hear me out. There should not be roadblocks and frustratingly difficult fights in casual content, but it shouldn't be so braindead either. There's a balance between having to use your full kit while still being able to clear with a group of random strangers, and the game struggles with finding it.

I agree with you but in a somewhat different way. Casual content should very much be on the easier side (Dungeons can maybe be a biiiiiit harder because they're kinda snore now but you get the idea), but I think rotations should be much more deep and nuanced. Casual content has no enrages so depth of rotation is irrelevant unless the player chooses to engage with it, meanwhile, job design gets to be much more engaging and interesting keeping less casual players happy.

[KitingGenbu]

I agree with you but in a somewhat different way. Casual content should very much be on the easier side (Dungeons can maybe be a biiiiiit harder because they're kinda snore now but you get the idea), but I think rotations should be much more deep and nuanced. Casual content has no enrages so depth of rotation is irrelevant unless the player chooses to engage with it, meanwhile, job design gets to be much more engaging and interesting keeping less casual players happy.

They could always bring back TP and lower potencies......fun times.

[Rithy255]

I feel like the game doesn't need to be harder, necessarily, but it could stand to be more engaging. Which is probably dipping into semantics, but hear me out. There should not be roadblocks and frustratingly difficult fights in casual content, but it shouldn't be so braindead either. There's a balance between having to use your full kit while still being able to clear with a group of random strangers, and the game struggles with finding it.

I wish they would add just a simple hard version of all new DT dungeons (and doing so would grant extra rewards).
Hard modes would easily just be the same mechs but more punishing, more out going dmg, ect.

I think the main issue is the lack of any basic progression system, you go from baby content to extremes with not much in-between
Not to say EXT is super hard, but it would be nice to have harder content that doesn't require a guide for the most part, Just more in-between normal/extreme.

[KitingGenbu]

I wish they would add just a simple hard version of all new DT dungeons (and doing so would grant extra rewards).
Hard modes would easily just be the same mechs but more punishing, more out going dmg, ect.

I think the main issue is the lack of any basic progression system, you go from baby content to extremes with not much in-between
Not to say EXT is super hard, but it would be nice to have harder content that doesn't require a guide for the most part, Just more in-between normal/extreme.

Extremes dont 'require' a guide, people are just impatient. If a warrior is able to solo a boss just because everyone died to mechanics in a boss fight in a dungeon, that might be a little too easy imo. They can easily add more group based mechanics to fight or something like that to counter the engagement issue. Or even consider adding more 'two strikes and you're out' mechanics.

[Renathras]

It might sound unintuitive, but making things harder at the baseline in MMOs doesn't actually get rid of people who don't know how to play their class all that well, historically. It doesn't even really gate them very much, because there's always ways to slip through the cracks and get carried or get lucky or just plain bash your head into it until it somehow works. You can go all in on systems like mythic+, but people still find ways to game scores and sneak through there too, and you get a whole heaping serving of fractal toxicity along with it.

Basic competency testing for boosters, sure, that makes sense. Beyond that? Lot of babies in that bathwater - be careful what you're throwing out.

This.

People only say they want harder content until every standard dungeon roulette takes 2 hours. Then they start only doing them with premade groups, defeating the whole point of the roulette in the first place, and leaving a lot of very disgruntled players that can't clear once all the "good" players leave the ques, leading to pushback, lots of people leaving the game, which then leads to nerfs, which then upsets the people who ARE running the premades (and enjoying the difficulty, but only in their premade groups), which leads to them leaving the game, which leads to the most hated expansions in a game's history.

Standard content that is run over and over shouldn't generally be too hard since that just leads to this chain of disaster playing out. It doesn't actually increase player skill, it just makes people have to be even more tolerant of it or makes the game collapse.

Now, when it comes to OPTIONAL content (I wouldn't consider 24 mans optional at this point since they're so needed to unlock other stuff, nor 8 man Normals since they're so essential for a lot of the story and world building), there's more leeway. The optional, non-MSQ dungeons (there used to be one (Hard) each patch, now we just get the two in X.0 and then no more...), Extremes, Savages, Ultiamtes, sure. We really need something between 24 mans/8 man Normals and Extremes as a step across that gap, though. Hard dungeons and Hard Trials could work well for that, but for whatever reason, they don't.

[Shurrikhan]

You can go all in on systems like mythic+, but people still find ways to game scores and sneak through there too, and you get a whole heaping serving of fractal toxicity along with it.

This seems a bit of an overstatement. While, yes, players will find ways not to learn to the degree others would, it's not that huge a gap, nor a particularly large reason for toxicity as long as ilvl isn't the only way people have to estimate a player's likely performance.


In systems like M+, people finding ways to "game" scores and "sneak through" there... are simply progression slower. They're padding their ilvl more relative to the content than do more skilled players.

Which, given that they're still producing the necessary throughput (even if needing 20+% more gear to meet those needs than more skilled players would, and therefore having to spend far more time at each upgrade step so they can fill out their missing slots before climbing higher)... is fine.


While others learn to jump, some may instead --in part-- paint the soles of their shoes or step in shit until its stacked thick enough to walk over the hurdles as if on stilts, but... that's kind of making a mountain out of molehill from players simply progressing at their own pace.

[RokkuEkkusu]

I think the hardest mandatory thing will be played in MSQ are stuff like Titan Hard, Seat of Sacrifice, and maybe World of Darkness.

Alright, just hear me out ok. this is not another OMG every1 in 14 suxxxx thread.
i genuinly think there is a currently huge problem with the games entry level expectations of players at 90 content.

we got some healer today, in grand cosmos. level 80 dng.. with no holy, freecure I farming, and not using a single lilly. and this is the issue imo. this game does abolutley nothing to check players are at the suitable level to enter these dungeons,
players now are able to buy boosts on the first ever character before ever completing any job properly first, players are able to buy msq skips and rush the game without learning anything, and fundimentally. this is making for a worse experience for the general players.

how you ask? well because when my tank comes into expert, or 80dng.. and he doesnt know what TBN is, he doesnt want to use rampart and instead spams clemency on himself, or my healer is refusing to use kardia on the tank, or my fellow dps are spamming 1-1-1-1 in there rotations, not wearing even a JOBSTONE i think something is wrong.

this game needs more checks on the players, because it HAS undenieably been making dungeon and raid content harder for casuals.. my god just look at 1st boss in dead ends. yet its doing nothing to make sure theyre up to the skill level of that boss.

check for crystals, check for first account boosting, check they didnt skip there job quests... something anything.. but rn this is such a huge issue every1 is suffering from in some way or another... i feel even as i type this.. people will read this and think im a troll, ask what the point of this post was, or attack me in some fasion not understand whats really wrong.. but i just hope somebody out there understands what im talking about... and how frustrating this really is becomming....

just stop rushing people into endgame.. its a genuine disservice to your great early game. stop setting new jobs at 70/80 and set them at ONE... its overwhelming! don't let people buy any skips before they hit max level on there main on those jobs AND MSQ first... dont let people into dng without crystals on.. i think this would be a good QOL for everyone, even those poor players who get humiliated in dngs because they didnt realize why skipping was so bad

Players will take the easiest way out to a clear. You can't always make them better if they are not willing to That is why Extremes, Savages, and Ultimates fill that niche.

That being said, I agree with the gist of your post. The issue i have is how your presented the post. The words are not reasonably coherent enough.