This game needs to be harder

[DPZ2]

I would classify both Elden Ring and Baldur's Gate 3 as pseudo-cooperative RPG games, rather than MMORPGs. Neither has the same player problems as an MMORPG.

[Payadopa]

Everything Yoshi P touches lately assumes you're an idiot unfortunately. That seems to be his recipe for attracting a wider audience...you know in the years Elden Ring and BG3 are dominating video game discourse.

I have to agree. It's the usual cop-out. I have 4 wives, 2.5 children and 28 jobs and I can only dedicate 33 minutes every Thursday so everything needs to be so easy I can sleep while playing.

Now, I think it's important to keep the MSQ accessable but not at everybody else's cost. A simple solution would be to make everything easy with trusts so solo players can eat around the MMO aspect but once you go MMO you have to at least stop watching Netflix. On top of that we really need difficulty sliders for instanced content (not just normal, easy and very easy). I think that's a fair compromise.

It would also help immensely if jobs would be fun again and had an identity. That way even easy content would feel engaging. All we have now is content that's pathetically easy along with jobs that don't feel good. Bonus points if you loose most of your kit due to ilvl synch.

[Payadopa]

Oh I also think min ilvl should be way more incentivised.Like give it double the exp and drop rate or something. And please give as a min ilvl roulette!! It's optional, so who cares. I'd actually do that one because it's fun.

[Turtledeluxe]

I have to agree. It's the usual cop-out. I have 4 wives, 2.5 children and 28 jobs and I can only dedicate 33 minutes every Thursday so everything needs to be so easy I can sleep while playing.

Now, I think it's important to keep the MSQ accessable but not at everybody else's cost. A simple solution would be to make everything easy with trusts so solo players can eat around the MMO aspect but once you go MMO you have to at least stop watching Netflix. On top of that we really need difficulty sliders for instanced content (not just normal, easy and very easy). I think that's a fair compromise.

It would also help immensely if jobs would be fun again and had an identity. That way even easy content would feel engaging. All we have now is content that's pathetically easy along with jobs that don't feel good. Bonus points if you loose most of your kit due to ilvl synch.

As I was saying in another thread all of this is true and totally clashes with SE's vision and marketing for the game. The game is being "modernized" as such but the marketing of it is a "wait and see" kind of thing that only appeals to the echo chamber and not potential wider audiences. As a result what do we get? SE is not attracting a wider audience and the game feels gutted. So we are suffering for nothing.

[KitingGenbu]

I don't agree with this because they have to future proof this game if they intend to keep it going. Every piece of MSQ content that involves a dungeon raid or trial should be able to use a trust. Because trust me this game will wane and fall in population and it will be near impossible for any new person who comes along trying to play it. As far as loot why would you gate keep it, this game really isn't about the phat loots. But that is my opinion, also keeping the side raids and dungeon content non trustable is fine. But you should want everyone to experience the story content in whatever way is viable.

They would still be able to do progress through the Trust version and at lower levels you're kind of getting tomes to buy better gear anyway. Trusts are strong enough to carry anyone, it just takes them longer since they dont aoe (which I agree that they shouldn't), so if a person is in a 'rush' to not wait in a queue or has social anxiety etc, it kind of should come with some set backs (on top of the ones already there), since this is a mmorpg after all.

Yep. The day Coincounter got AoE indicators is the day Aurum Vale lost half its teeth. That's where I learned to REALLY pay attention to castbars (and how useful holding my stun for a specific move could be), and it's a shame that the sprouts of today aren't getting that lesson at that point.

Yeah, even though I'm not an 'immersion' person most of the time, seeing so much red going on every time a move is about to happen kind of just takes me out of the game a bit. You end up just getting focused on 'not standing on the red' or 'standing on this red until the other red goes away' instead of actually looking at the theatrics of the fight. Couple that with all the flashy animations that some of these classes can do (like smn for instance) and it can feel like eye vomit on the screen.

[Jojoya]

As I was saying in another thread all of this is true and totally clashes with SE's vision and marketing for the game. The game is being "modernized" as such but the marketing of it is a "wait and see" kind of thing that only appeals to the echo chamber and not potential wider audiences. As a result what do we get? SE is not attracting a wider audience and the game feels gutted. So we are suffering for nothing.

Did you stop to consider that FFXIV is not trying to appeal to potential wider audiences?

Wider audiences are generally not a good things for games because interests within the player base can start diverging even more. The more interests diverge, the more content that needs to be created to satisfy them all. The more content that needs to be created, the thinner the development team gets spread over increasing tasks and the more likely quality is going to take a big hit as content is rushed to release regardless of bugs and inconsistencies.

If you want to appeal to a wider audience as a company, you make a new product to appeal to those who aren't interested in your current products. You don't change your current products and alienate your already loyal customers.

This is where YoshiP is already taking a risk. Can they keep FFXIV close enough to what it has been while making small changes to attract franchise fans who don't want to play a MMO without causing existing players to feel alienated? Many players have been unhappy with changes to dungeons for the sake of NPC AIs so the game can be played mostly solo. How many players stopped at dungeons and didn't get into trials/raids? Will the adjusted dungeon designs bore them so they lose interest in the game? Can they get away with maybe likewise changing Normal trials for MSQ to be NPC AI compatible without further upsetting parts of the existing player base?

Trying to push things even farther for an even wider audience likely would not end well, especially if SE does not give FFXIV a bigger budget for more staff and facilities. Even if they did, it would take a couple of expansions before players would see any positive effects from those changes - but they could easily see negative effects during the interim.

A lot of posters (and probably lurking readers) here hate when WoW gets brought up but it is an extremely good example to learn from. It showed what can happen when a new game is released with more modern ideas about game play and also what can happen when you continue to make changes beyond what attracted those players to the game in the first place.

This game is no longer new. It's got a solid player base. Additional changes run that risk of driving satisfied players without attracting enough new ones to replace them.

[Rithy255]

I remember getting a level 90 gladiator in my EW dungeon while playing healer, I actually got to play as a healer

This game is pretty easy in the casual level, Support jobs (tanks/healers) will always be made easier and easier so people will have less conflict about doing something wrong, as the game wants everyone to be able to pick up and play a role type.

Sadly that means most likely we will never get more to do in terms of job Varity where healers actually heal, tanks have to position, aggro manage, defensive/sustain/utility management ect. obviously "hardcore" content exists but nothing really midcore where you don't have to look at a guide (or be really really good) just doesn't exist in this game when it should.

[Turtledeluxe]

Did you stop to consider that FFXIV is not trying to appeal to potential wider audiences?

Yoshi P has made several statements in general that make it clear he's trying to get "younger players" into FF.

You say changes drive away players as though I didn't just quote a post describing changes that have driven away players.

You think Duty Support is just being made for fun? The devs have made all kinds of changes to make the game more accessible (and soloable) that are clearly aligned with drawing in new players. By necessity that requires a wider audience because there isn't some infinite pool of MMO players waiting for SE to torch the next job identity to play XIV. Obviously when that happens it's continuing with the theme of making the game more playable, and that isn't to retain people but rather to get people to try and stay in the game who otherwise wouldn't.

Yes the game is old, and yet SE is constantly updating it instead of making a new one because like all live service games now, they want to just retain and grow players on this game vs spending the money on a new one. Please note the game literally has a free trial so this idea SE is just coasting is silly.

I also like that you're talking about WoW as though FF isn't potentially doing exactly the same thing. Time will tell. How long will the established player base tolerating the increasingly single player, two minute meta, dumbed down job strategy of XIV? When I say modernizing in quotes it means I am being sarcastic. FFXIV is doing what it thinks is modernizing and that's what makes it all the more tragic.

[Astrahime]

how you ask? well because when my tank comes into expert, or 80dng.. and he doesnt know what TBN is, he doesnt want to use rampart and instead spams clemency on himself, or my healer is refusing to use kardia on the tank, or my fellow dps are spamming 1-1-1-1 in there rotations, not wearing even a JOBSTONE i think something is wrong.

Are they a DRK or a PLD? Make up your mind.

just stop rushing people into endgame.. its a genuine disservice to your great early game. stop setting new jobs at 70/80 and set them at ONE... its overwhelming! don't let people buy any skips before they hit max level on there main on those jobs AND MSQ first... dont let people into dng without crystals on.. i think this would be a good QOL for everyone, even those poor players who get humiliated in dngs because they didnt realize why skipping was so bad

There's no real reason to arbitrarily make jobs start at level 1. The lowest level that's reasonable for a job to start at is level 30. Because it's a Job. Not a Class.
I agree with your point on buying skips though. You shouldn't be able to buy job skips if you don't have a job at level 80 on any of your characters yet.
And with the Job Crystals point, making all content that's 2.1 or later (Other than PotD) require job stones to be equipped in order to queue through Duty Finder is a good idea.

i wish jobs all started at level 1. i feel genuinly sad i couldn't take my rpr/sage from 1-90. it was so hard to learn because of it

Ever heard of Palace of the Dead? It starts you off at level 1, and you can naturally level from 1 to 60 inside its instance. Then go to Heaven on High and do the same from level 61 to 70.

I do wish jobs started lower or at least had certain perquisites other than just being the level. Example, having a tank at 60 to be able to unlock GNB or a healer at 70 to be able to unlock SGE. Going from 70 DRG to 70 SGE isn't exactly an easy task for just anyone and makes others suffer as well.

This is also a good idea.

we can never have rotation tutorials in this game because that would mean devs deciding on the "correct rotation" the job i play (rpr) has 2 openers both of which are viable (early enshroud, early gluttony) and both lead to good results. if the devs did rotation toturlas theyde effectly be forcing meta rotations onto everyone, and you need a new one like every 4 levels for certian jobs, like mch.

We can. You can say "Use your 1/2/3 combo to get meter". You can say "Use Reassemble on Drill because it has the most potency". You can say "Spam Gauss Round and Ricochet while using Heat Blast."

[Astrahime]

Goddamnit the dungeon reworks completely slipped my mind. RIP Mist Dragon, Yoshi-P's on his way to fell cleave your kneecaps as we speak

I'm actually wondering how they'll do this.
Blue Mage needs to intentionally fail the mechanic in order to learn Cold Fog, so unless they're ready to get yelled at by a group of the most chaotic raiders ingame they'll have to not completely lobotomise the mechanics.