Dawntrail Media Tour Wishlist Survey

[ty_taurus]

The problem is, you have to match the responses to the written answers at the bottom (not sure if it does this on the backend or not) to see what that is. For example, if a lot of 0s had as their long form answer something like "I loved old SMN and hate this one <insert negative adjectives like "braindead">", then we might conclude that it's vote bombing by people who want its average to look low in the hopes SMN gets changed.

I can actually. On google forms, I have the power to look at individual responses (anonymously of course since I set it to not collect emails). I can also download the current responses as an excel sheet, which I just did and threw onto my drive. Here's a link, knock yourself out.

This is just a downloaded file and will not be getting updated as new responses pour in though, so I'll probably delete that after a few days so it's not clogging up my drive and will eventually get outdated anyway.

[Connor]

I can actually. On google forms, I have the power to look at individual responses (anonymously of course since I set it to not collect emails). I can also download the current responses as an excel sheet, which I just did and threw onto my drive. Here's a link, knock yourself out.

This is just a downloaded file and will not be getting updated as new responses pour in though, so I'll probably delete that after a few days so it's not clogging up my drive and will eventually get outdated anyway.

Taking a look at the link, I’ve only had a cursory glance so it’s purely theory, but from what I can see the amount of ‘0’ responses doesn’t seem to be significantly above the other responses. Not to say that the actual mathematics could suggest otherwise. But from that, I’d say that’s it’s not ‘review bombing’ to the extent that the data is being ‘corrupted’, simply since there’s isn’t enough 0’s to represent something being amiss. That said, I do think there’s somewhat of a difficulty with the text responses that are paired with the 0’s, since they do generally refer back to the previous versions.

So there’s the potential that when answering the question, the responses haven’t been about whether the job is enjoyable, but about whether the job is enjoyable relative to previous iterations. Which, is an inevitable shortfall of any survey really. It might be answering a different question but the answer it gives is just as valuable, since it seems like a large amount of Summoner mains are unhappy that the previous iteration of the job simply no longer exists, the current one offers nothing that appeals to them compared to previously, and they now have no way to engage with that gameplay.

And, that’s not to say of course that even in the absence of those responses the data doesn’t indicate any issues. From what I can see, excluding the 0’s puts the 2’s and 8’s as the most common responses. I’d say that could also suggest that it’s an overall fairly divisive job, but also that there may be some underlying issue that’s causing the divide. What that is though could be any number of things, from when players first tried Summoner, to things like ease of output in higher difficulty content.

Again it’s all my own conjecture, but from what I can see, there isn’t enough responses of 0 to suggest that there was an active attempt to review bomb. While the 0 responses may arguably have been answering a different question to the one posed, it doesn’t change the fact that many people did choose it, which is corroborated by the lower responses like 2 still being chosen very frequently. That said, I don’t think it’s right to ignore the amount of ‘8’s either, whether it simply means that people who like current Summoner really like it, or something else entirely.

[ty_taurus]

Realistically, the numbers here are still small. It took time for the last one to accumulate a larger amount of scores, and ideally, you want at least 100 submissions of random players to get values within a decent margin of error for a game of this scale. 100 doesn't sound like many, but that supposedly places your survey within a 10% margin of error for a population in the millions. But let's talk about these results so far and what their responses might indicate on a larger scale.

If you return to the survey and select "see previous responses" you'll be able to view the total results in a graph for that question. Summoners looks like this:



This indicates a few things for me. The first is that there is a large sum of 0s, and since we can look at who is responding, we can see why. The 0s generate largely from former summoner players who found the rework was a major downgrade, and the feedback can be summarized in that the job is way too simple and needs more added to it, and that it plays too much like a physical ranged DPS. But even if we look passed the 0s, the range is still all over the place, gravitating toward 2 and 8, but is still highly inconsistent, and that's a problem. In a perfect world, you'd want a score like what black mage has:



This is the perfect scenario, where players are overwhelmingly satisfied with the state of the job, but at the same time, it's also quite difficult to achieve this across so many jobs in a game with such a large audience. Realistically, you want every job to have the majority of its scores gravitate toward somewhere around at least the 7-8 area. Red Mage showcases this very well:



Once things start gravitating toward 5s and 6s, it's time to start looking into what's not working for people, and where improvement could be made, and the lower that gets, the more critical things are. But I would also say that having a really inconsistent set of scores is also very concerning and should be investigated. That is a time where it's worth looking into what changes need to be made, or if something should even be rebuilt, in an effort to unify players in favor of that job. Look at what is appreciated by those that rate it highly, what's criticized by those who rate it low, and look at solutions that address the concerns of the low scorers without disrupting the liked aspects from the high scorers.

[Renathras]

The first is that there is a large sum of 0s, and since we can look at who is responding, we can see why. The 0s generate largely from former summoner players who found the rework was a major downgrade,

Genuine question: How can we be sure that it's that new SMN is bad in their eyes and NOT that they hold a grudge against it displacing former SMN? That is, would they be voting this way (or even voting on the SMN at all) if it was a separate Job? I get it's a hypothetical that's difficult to parse out, but that's the reason for the question, since it's effectively asking two different things:

1) Is new SMN bad?
2) Are you upset that old SMN is gone?

Thing is, I'm not sure how to separate the two. In theory, if everyone was honest, they'd put it into their reply, but people tend not to do that. Some did, I noticed, but a lot of people don't because the mental thing with us Humans to generally present face better. That is, "I hate that I don't have new SMN so I'm vote bombing this one because I hate that" doesn't carry over as well as "I'm a former SMN player and this one is now braindead". Though, again, some people were outright honest in the "I hate that my old SMN has been changed".

Though I suppose the bigger issue right now are the response numbers. BLM has only 40. If 100 gives you a 10% margin of error, I wonder what 40 gets you...

[Aravell]

Once things start gravitating toward 5s and 6s, it's time to start looking into what's not working for people, and where improvement could be made, and the lower that gets, the more critical things are. But I would also say that having a really inconsistent set of scores is also very concerning and should be investigated. That is a time where it's worth looking into what changes need to be made, or if something should even be rebuilt, in an effort to unify players in favor of that job. Look at what is appreciated by those that rate it highly, what's criticized by those who rate it low, and look at solutions that address the concerns of the low scorers without disrupting the liked aspects from the high scorers.

BRD is definitely concerning then, since the majority of votes appears to be gravitating towards the 3~6 range. I guess the dissatisfaction is reaching an all-time peak ever since ShB gutted BRD to introduce DNC.

[tearagion]

Genuine question: How can we be sure that it's that new SMN is bad in their eyes and NOT that they hold a grudge against it displacing former SMN? That is, would they be voting this way (or even voting on the SMN at all) if it was a separate Job? I get it's a hypothetical that's difficult to parse out, but that's the reason for the question, since it's effectively asking two different things:

1) Is new SMN bad?
2) Are you upset that old SMN is gone?

Thing is, I'm not sure how to separate the two. In theory, if everyone was honest, they'd put it into their reply, but people tend not to do that. Some did, I noticed, but a lot of people don't because the mental thing with us Humans to generally present face better. That is, "I hate that I don't have new SMN so I'm vote bombing this one because I hate that" doesn't carry over as well as "I'm a former SMN player and this one is now braindead". Though, again, some people were outright honest in the "I hate that my old SMN has been changed".

I can tell you right now as a former SMN main I entered EW with an open mind, played all of the MSQ on it, and couldn't stomach any more lol. It fails to deliver traditional caster gameplay, it fails to deliver summoning gameplay beyond visually, it fails to deliver a rotation you can spend any time trying to master, and it feels pretty unfinished. It's a 0/10 divorced from ShB as there is nothing I can compliment the job on doing well. It completely replacing old SMN is just the offensive cherry on top.

[ty_taurus]

BRD is definitely concerning then, since the majority of votes appears to be gravitating towards the 3~6 range. I guess the dissatisfaction is reaching an all-time peak ever since ShB gutted BRD to introduce DNC.

A lot of the feedback seems to be in unison that the songs need an adjustment to make them more flexible so that KOs are less punishing, and that there's more variety in your rotation. Bard's something that's been outside my periphery for a while, but I can definitely see what they're talking about from leveling it. There's also several mentions of the gauges in general where the Coda and the Soul Gauge need more thought put into them.

[Aravell]

A lot of the feedback seems to be in unison that the songs need an adjustment to make them more flexible so that KOs are less punishing, and that there's more variety in your rotation. Bard's something that's been outside my periphery for a while, but I can definitely see what they're talking about from leveling it. There's also several mentions of the gauges in general where the Coda and the Soul Gauge need more thought put into them.

Oh, I'm aware of bard's issues, I've played it quite a lot in every expansion, I just found it interesting that bard is receiving such meh scores now. There's usually been hardcore defenders of every job, BRD still had some diehard fans back in ShB when it got gutted to make DNC more appealing, it's interesting that bard is now so widely disliked.

[TheGrimace]

All you Samurai who are saying "bring back Kaiten,"

I see you and I appreciate you. Bring back Kaiten.

[GoatOfWar]

I want them to undo some of the homogenisation in the tank roster and to stop listening to a certain bald streamer.