please bring back hard mode/optional dungeons

[kingskye]

Ever since Yoshi P decided to phase out the extra dungeons in shadowbringers, the content as a whole took a giant dip for the worst. While you didn't feel it happening in endwalker, it is definitely felt in endwalker where the content is only super casual or hardcore. While dungeons in endwalker/shadowbringers were just used as set pieces to move the story forward, I felt that the dungeons still doesn't break away from traditional final fantasy xiv dungeon formula. Maybe I feel its the lack of creativity that prevented future dungeons from being produced, but JUST having dungeons being the set pieces in story feels like its a bad idea waiting to happen, especially where we have situations like troia where we still explore the dungeons post dungeon run...which feels like it defeats the purpose of that dungeons existence. In many shapes and form it feels like the optional dungeons from shadowbringers/endwalker are more engaging and entertaining than the counterparts that are supposed to be in the main story (twinning/smileton). The one thing I've missed with the optional dungeons was the world building it brought into the world, it build upon the world way more than any content that was given to us. I wish in some shape and form it would come back since we need more content for the game instead of just playing it safe and just giving us content we think we like. Also I want to elaborate, I do not want any content removed so this will return...however its not fair for us to feel like we have to choose one thing or the other...we need more options in the game. Please reconsider bringing back optional dungeons, thank you for listening.

[Zairava]

Ever since Yoshi P decided to phase out the extra dungeons in shadowbringers, the content as a whole took a giant dip for the worst. While you didn't feel it happening in endwalker, it is definitely felt in endwalker where the content is only super casual or hardcore. While dungeons in endwalker/shadowbringers were just used as set pieces to move the story forward, I felt that the dungeons still doesn't break away from traditional final fantasy xiv dungeon formula. Maybe I feel its the lack of creativity that prevented future dungeons from being produced, but JUST having dungeons being the set pieces in story feels like its a bad idea waiting to happen, especially where we have situations like troia where we still explore the dungeons post dungeon run...which feels like it defeats the purpose of that dungeons existence. In many shapes and form it feels like the optional dungeons from shadowbringers/endwalker are more engaging and entertaining than the counterparts that are supposed to be in the main story (twinning/smileton). The one thing I've missed with the optional dungeons was the world building it brought into the world, it build upon the world way more than any content that was given to us. I wish in some shape and form it would come back since we need more content for the game instead of just playing it safe and just giving us content we think we like. Also I want to elaborate, I do not want any content removed so this will return...however its not fair for us to feel like we have to choose one thing or the other...we need more options in the game. Please reconsider bringing back optional dungeons, thank you for listening.

Minor correction in the second statement, I think you meant to say it wasn't felt much in Shadowbringers, not Endwalker. (Thank you Bozja for giving me reasons to enjoy Shadowbringers for something other than it's story.)

As far as I'm aware, Criterion is supposed to be that optional hard dungeon content that (successfully, mind) does do some pretty decent world-building, but the point that's been beaten to death by now is that it is incredibly unrewarding, so no one outside of a smaller populus of friend groups actually go and do it until they get their mount to sell it or w/e and dip.

I'd like hard mode dungeons too, personally. I don't think they'll go that path again, but we'll just need to wait and see.

[lennit]

Ever since Yoshi P decided to phase out the extra dungeons in shadowbringers, the content as a whole took a giant dip for the worst. While you didn't feel it happening in endwalker, it is definitely felt in endwalker where the content is only super casual or hardcore. While dungeons in endwalker/shadowbringers were just used as set pieces to move the story forward, I felt that the dungeons still doesn't break away from traditional final fantasy xiv dungeon formula. Maybe I feel its the lack of creativity that prevented future dungeons from being produced, but JUST having dungeons being the set pieces in story feels like its a bad idea waiting to happen, especially where we have situations like troia where we still explore the dungeons post dungeon run...which feels like it defeats the purpose of that dungeons existence. In many shapes and form it feels like the optional dungeons from shadowbringers/endwalker are more engaging and entertaining than the counterparts that are supposed to be in the main story (twinning/smileton). The one thing I've missed with the optional dungeons was the world building it brought into the world, it build upon the world way more than any content that was given to us. I wish in some shape and form it would come back since we need more content for the game instead of just playing it safe and just giving us content we think we like. Also I want to elaborate, I do not want any content removed so this will return...however its not fair for us to feel like we have to choose one thing or the other...we need more options in the game. Please reconsider bringing back optional dungeons, thank you for listening.

iam all for option for hard mod and easy mod , yes i know there are a lot of player that like a challenge , but i dont see the rewards should differ from easy and hard mod, since hard mod can be frustrating for some, if your bandwidth doesn't go in your favour. i wouldn't want any content to deter some one to quit.

[Raikai]

They should also just abandon the name 'Hard Mode' for those dungeons that revisit old places, it simply causes confusion with some people thinking that that is actually a HARD difficulty, lol.

'Another' (in line with V&Cs) or something like that would be more fitting.

[Arohk]

I'd like hard mode dungeons too, personally. I don't think they'll go that path again, but we'll just need to wait and see.

There never were any "hard mode" dungeons , they were just a little higher ilvl.
They are just optional Dungeons from the MSQ.

[kingskye]

Minor correction in the second statement, I think you meant to say it wasn't felt much in Shadowbringers, not Endwalker. (Thank you Bozja for giving me reasons to enjoy Shadowbringers for something other than it's story.)

As far as I'm aware, Criterion is supposed to be that optional hard dungeon content that (successfully, mind) does do some pretty decent world-building, but the point that's been beaten to death by now is that it is incredibly unrewarding, so no one outside of a smaller populus of friend groups actually go and do it until they get their mount to sell it or w/e and dip.

I'd like hard mode dungeons too, personally. I don't think they'll go that path again, but we'll just need to wait and see.

oh whoops, thanks for that lol and since shadowbringers still had enough content to where the lull wasn't felt as hard as endwalker...i wonder if they can just rework the variant dungeons as optional dungeons and then leave criterion/savage as is since criterion change the format differently

[kingskye]

They should also just abandon the name 'Hard Mode' for those dungeons that revisit old places, it simply causes confusion with some people thinking that that is actually a HARD difficulty, lol.

'Another' (in line with V&Cs) or something like that would be more fitting.

omg that is a good idea, but i wonder how another twinning for example would sound like, lol

[Jojoya]

The problem is the development resource limit. The extra dungeons (not to mention a potential new Deep Dungeon) were lost in Shadowbringers so they could put the resources into creating the CEs in Bozja along with CLL, DR and Dalriada.

I suspect they were also getting complaints from some players about them reusing existing dungeon assets instead of creating a completely new dungeon to experience. I've watched that tug-of-war between players in multiple MMOs over the years where one group likes to revisit the original dungeon in a new way while others would rather get a completely new dungeon.

More overall content is always welcome but it's dependent on SE giving the development team more money for more staff so they're able to create more. Or we'd have to wait longer between expansions/patches so what staff they do have would have longer to create the additional content. Considering how many players are already complaining that the patch cycle has been extended from 18 to 20-21 weeks, I don't think the latter would be a popular choice.

[Post]

Yo, the dungeon revisits almost invariably owned. I think the only ones that were steps down were Pharos and Arboretum.

I don't even mind the reused areas because they're normally differentiated enough visually, and I think they gave a good testing ground for battle designers.

After Euphrosyne and a bunch of the Pandemonium encounters I think they could use dungeons to give some of the newer designers practice... (Referencing a JP article where YoshiP states that the new 24 mans were entirely within the hands of a newer battle design and story writing team)

Maybe it would be less costly to produce 'hard mode' dungeons again because the environments wouldn't have to be wholly new like with the separate Variant dungeons.

[Jojoya]

Maybe it would be less costly to produce 'hard mode' dungeons again because the environments wouldn't have to be wholly new like with the separate Variant dungeons.

It's definitely less costly and less time consuming to reuse an existing dungeon than to make a new one from scratch. That's why it's strange they stopped doing them unless most of the feedback they were receiving was negative because of the reuse.

Personally, I don't have any strong feelings one way or the other. If reusing existing assets means more overall content, that seems like a good thing as long as we're still getting some completely new content along with it (which can then also be reused at a later date).