The 2nd job in Dawntrails should be....

[Jojoya]

That would make the game too difficult for the audience they've been trying to target in recent years.

More like it would make it too difficulty for them to balance jobs, creating the neverending complaint stream about balance.

One of these days, MMORPG developers need to face the underlying problem: they're trying to create jobs as if they're making a competitive game instead of a RPG. Balance shouldn't be a consideration in a RPG.

Those who are competitive by nature can restrict themselves to the FotM jobs that the theorycrafters have decided are the best for the latest content release and switch when something else ends up FotM the next release.

Those who are more interested in the RPG aspects can pick what they have fun playing.

[Korbei]

imo they should stop with jobs all together and add skill trees or professions. make jobs feel more dynamic

Is this the first Final Fantasy game you've ever played? That's not how Final Fantasy works! That's never been how Final Fantasy works!

[TheDustyOne]

Is this the first Final Fantasy game you've ever played? That's not how Final Fantasy works! That's never been how Final Fantasy works!

Other FF games with Job systems have had us unlock our skills via job points without a linear sequence, the two that come to mind immediately are Tactics and X-2. More often than not, they also allow players to mix and match abilities and passives from one job onto another, so skill trees and custom playstyles aren't out of the question for the job system. If anything, XIV is the only one to make the job system incredibly paired back with no customization in favour of balance.

[Nebelheim]

Is this the first Final Fantasy game you've ever played? That's not how Final Fantasy works! That's never been how Final Fantasy works!

FF11 had the job/sub job system where subjobs are half the level of the main job and lets you use certain traits and abilities of that subjob. And the recent master level system in ff11 further increases subjob levels adding even more abilities from the subjob plus the job point and merit system. While we don't have skill trees like other mmos each final fantasy had it's own takes on how combat and jobs played.

[Jeeqbit]

They view FFXIV as a themepark of all the different FF games, where no matter what FF game(s) you came from, there will be something familiar to you. So of course they will keep pulling from previous FF games.

But in EW they did have a big interest in "FFXIV Original" content and jobs, such as the Alliance raid series and the two jobs. But this was mixed in with FF4 content to show they haven't completely moved away from it.

[LioJen]

“Job names are especially tough. (laughs wryly) After all, there’s no point if a job is similar to its namesake in name only; its gameplay experience needs to match their pre-established design too. At this point, I’m thinking we have no choice but to come up with brand new jobs that haven’t appeared in the FF series before. From a system perspective, if the number of jobs is fixed and well-balanced, there’s no need to add more, and adding new jobs would obviously cause a stir. But nevertheless, we always need to add more jobs to keep providing new gameplay experiences.”

There's the quote from Yoshi, interpret it how you will

[Connor]

Other FF games with Job systems have had us unlock our skills via job points without a linear sequence, the two that come to mind immediately are Tactics and X-2. More often than not, they also allow players to mix and match abilities and passives from one job onto another, so skill trees and custom playstyles aren't out of the question for the job system. If anything, XIV is the only one to make the job system incredibly paired back with no customization in favour of balance.

I don’t disagree, but the developers have spent pretty much the entire 10 years since ARR desperately chasing the balance dragon (that they’ll never catch). Something like skill trees in SE’s eyes would either be imbalanced in some way, or completely identical and thus a waste of resources.

Of course, one could argue that skill trees or other decisions around one’s job don’t inherently need to be completely unbalanced. But that would require them putting actual work into the game, which apparently is just too much now lol

[UkcsAlias]

Of course, one could argue that skill trees or other decisions around one’s job don’t inherently need to be completely unbalanced. But that would require them putting actual work into the game, which apparently is just too much now lol

Skill trees in far too many games gave more issues than they solved. Especialy when you have to cooperate.

The problem is that a lot of people see certain builds as optimal, and no matter what you do, deviating from that is only going to hurt your own experience (guess who they will blame). Even very simple skill trees (as blizzard even tried in heroes of the storm) in most cases just dont work. 1 build will dominate, or the builds will all be very stale and depend on the enemy (and against that, its a fixed path again).

For games like diablo, which are single player, it doesnt hurt since you dont hinder teammates. This makes them capable of going a lot further and give them even some strange options. And yes, this sometimes means broken effects, but that is why skill trees in single player games simply end up being better.

It was a good choise to simply have none, as in most cases they arent relevant at all, or only changes when a new bossfight is released, and then is purely adjusted for that. Its very dull as players are simply good at optimizing fun out of it.

And this is where PvP actualy shines, as that is a situation in which you can (and usualy must) adapt towards the enemy, If they choose something strange to counter you, you sometimes must follow and counter them again. But yeah, usualy this still means just a binary choice system (the main option, or a counter specific one).

[RitsukoSonoda]

Skill trees in far too many games gave more issues than they solved. Especialy when you have to cooperate.

The problem is that a lot of people see certain builds as optimal, and no matter what you do, deviating from that is only going to hurt your own experience (guess who they will blame). Even very simple skill trees (as blizzard even tried in heroes of the storm) in most cases just dont work. 1 build will dominate, or the builds will all be very stale and depend on the enemy (and against that, its a fixed path again).

For games like diablo, which are single player, it doesnt hurt since you dont hinder teammates. This makes them capable of going a lot further and give them even some strange options. And yes, this sometimes means broken effects, but that is why skill trees in single player games simply end up being better.

It was a good choise to simply have none, as in most cases they arent relevant at all, or only changes when a new bossfight is released, and then is purely adjusted for that. Its very dull as players are simply good at optimizing fun out of it.

And this is where PvP actualy shines, as that is a situation in which you can (and usualy must) adapt towards the enemy, If they choose something strange to counter you, you sometimes must follow and counter them again. But yeah, usualy this still means just a binary choice system (the main option, or a counter specific one).

Actually, Metas are a player base problem, not a developer one. It's players that come up with them then essentially go around telling people their fun, enjoyment, and immersion are no longer allowed and that everyone must adhere to the spreadsheet.

However given that CBU3 has been essentially stripping and homogenizing jobs to try and support the "raid meta", at the detriment of everyone else, I don't see them making anything worthwhile using skill trees.