Thoughts on Red Sands?

[Towa-Musa]

i don't care about it.

[VoidsentStatus]

.

Not so much a huge difference at the high end, but the lower brackets are closer.
NA Unranked to Silver: 5/10
NA Gold/Platinum: 6/10
NA Diamond: 7/10
NA Crystal: 7.5-8/10
NA Top 30: 8-9/10

JP Unranked to Silver: 6-7/10
JP Gold/Plat: 7-8/10
JP Diamond: 8-8.5/10
JP Crystal: 8.5-9/10
JP Top 30: 9-9.5/10

At the highest levels, there may only be a 0.5-1 gap between regions, but in the lower brackets, you can have a 1-2 difference. The majority of JP is a giant tier above NA, which is the why I compared it to toddlers. Even if you check the "season ending" lodestone messages, back in season 4 they updated matchmaking to make matches more competitive for every data center, but only did it for JP data centers in season 5+.

The majority of NA/EU don't have the pieces put together for the fundamentals etc. The Top 30's on NA during old tournament interviews mostly spoke well of specific jobs from JP data centers that they handled different and also their defensive ability to stall out matches. Frequency of shotcalling is another difference. To not rely on 1-2 people in queue for calls allows a different dynamic when you have multiple ppl pinging and updating markers/drawing attention to things. It's the frequency that you see certain elements of high level play and what skill brackets those elements become "standard" in.

As for the 1shot with MP left argument, the reason why I ignore mana is because when you deal with high lethal matches like Match 3 (which is what happens when you don't have 2 healer comps and pld's nerfing burst), your mana doesn't matter for the 2-3s burst type's. You don't realize you're being focused until 1s into that burst already, once you see either a burst rotation like Emp Arrows from Bard or DRG spear etc. At that point, you have a choice. You can back up, you can try to recupe it back, or you can guard. And so the issue is that most times unless you've been focused already in a match, you're not going to blow guard just from 1 person's damage. You often want to re-position or recupe by default instinctively. That's when the follow-up CC hits and now you're stunned/silenced and unable to re-position or heal, and now you have to purify. By the time you realize your next cast can't go through because of that stun/silence and you need to purify, you're at 2-2.5s in after the purify animation. You're already dead and lucky to get 1 recupe if that. It's one of the scariest situations to be in because after a while, you almost train yourself to blow guard early just to be safe because you know you can't hit it after depending. Your best case for a late guard is you guarding with 20-30% health left and you gotCC waiting for as soon as you get out, and you don't have purify because you burned it just to get the guard off. When you can put out that level of damage, it's a guaranteed kill regardless because you wouldn't have time or the ability to use the mana anyway.

[Valence]

I'm not disagreeing with the reasoning, as it's one of the basics no matter the DC at decent level, and I do think Purify is a problem for the exact reason you mention, but I think you still conveniently forget everything else that happens between successful insta KOs bursts, like smaller burst attempts, harassment, primary target rotation, failed bursts (those are legion even on the video), etc. I don't think all of this has no inherent value at all.

Also, what metric are you using? Something arbitrary? (I really, really doubt that JP unranked is equal to NA/EU diamond lol)

[VoidsentStatus]

I'm not disagreeing with the reasoning, as it's one of the basics no matter the DC at decent level, and I do think Purify is a problem for the exact reason you mention, but I think you still conveniently forget everything else that happens between successful insta KOs bursts, like smaller burst attempts, harassment, primary target rotation, failed bursts (those are legion even on the video), etc. I don't think all of this has no inherent value at all.

Also, what metric are you using? Something arbitrary? (I really, really doubt that JP unranked is equal to NA/EU diamond lol)

Metric I'm using:
- frequency of listening to shotcalls and having focus
- amount of shotcallers other than myself
- guard rotating between teammates
- not seeing people that look like it's their first match in pvp where they have no idea how to use their kit (paladins not using cover as an example, blm's holding lb's, ninja's not getting executes, people standing in the open at 40-50% health with full mana and not hitting recuperate for several seconds)
- amount of times I see people ignoring the crystal giving free wins
- amount of times I see people overchasing instead of staying with their team
- ease of ability to keep a stagger (NA runs back in like idiots a lot more frequently than grouping)
- LB synergy between teammates

judging individual mechanics for a given job kit is a bit difficult but teamplay orientation wise there's a huge gap. and JP silver would be like plat/diamond teamwork wise. the ability to carry teammates that don't suck and having teammates that listen makes it a better/more competitive experience overall. That's outside of the toxicity difference. I don't see targets to ignore spam on JP, I don't see "Push the crystal!" x5 as much. I don't see "Hello."x3. I don't see people afk'ing or flat out blatant wintrading with 0 healing output and 20k damage as much. I probably have at least 400-500 pvp matches on JP so far and I may have had 1, maybe 2 games tops with a target to ignore in casuals and ranked. I went to EU and saw target to ignore day 1 in casual and ranked.

As for the inherent value of smaller burst attempts, harassment, failed burst, I would wonder what you thought the inherent value of it was. Assuming no crystal progress is made and no1 dies to negate limit break building, is there a reason to care about what is basically just damage padding at the higher ranks? Most times for me those things don't matter unless it's a tight match and neither team reaches 50% so every small wiggle of the crystal is important. *

[Valence]

I think you're looking at it the wrong way. A failed burst, someone escaping successfully, or anything that's not a pure oneshot burst, could potentially have been a kill, but was prevented for varied reasons in each case. Those can be a lot of things, from mitigation, cover, shielding, teamplay, good positioning, defense against peeling, or just somebody defending successfully and suddenly making MP important as a resource. Even with a crushing burst meta, it doesn't absolve everything else either. You said it yourself, assuming no crystal progress is made and nobody dies to negate lb building, it indeed gives no inherent value to the damage that went off for no gain, but it gives inherent value to everything else.

Just out of curiosity, you seem to have played on NA, did you play on EU as well? At high level? Is it similar? Different?

[VoidsentStatus]

*

So far:
S1 - Crystal rank Aether
S2 - Crystal rank Primal
S3 - Crystal rank Crystal
S4 - Crystal rank Mana + Top 100 Crystal + Top 30 Dynamis
S5-7 - vacation, mostly casuals on Mana
S8 - currently Diamond 5 Mana & Gaia + Plat 4 Primal + Bronze 3 on Chaos because it won't queue T_T Mostly going off Brian Ricardo's streams for Crystal/Diamond matches on EU because that happens to be when I can catch him most times so I can somewhat compare it to NA. Seems more skirmishy/messy than NA in general. JP is skirmishy as well but they won't chase as hard as what I saw on stream or even in Bronze since when I queue'd there were like 2-3 top 30's in the matches, either decayed to Gold or world transfer so I see a Endless Conflict with unranked. EU almost reminded me of OCE level griefing I heard of where they chase to no end. Most of what I remember is Brian having issues with synergy/chasing/grouping which shows since he mained healer in stream back then.

As for "making MP important as a resource", mmmmm, I'd say it depends on the comps to start. One thing about JP I learned was how to maximize my uptime on BRD in terms of knowing when I can still put out damage and not have mana or guard or purify because the damage threat of the enemy team is low. I know I'll have time to escape or get healed up. I think MP would be important if you wanted to go back in and you had potential to die, but even then you can get into nitpicky territory. If you had a 2-3 tank comp with 2-3 range dps, I can see MP being important on the tanks to frontline, but not on the range dps assuming they're spread out. If you're in Overtime and forced to stay on the crystal, MP can be important then as well. However, and this can change depending on map and comps as well, I'm looking at things from a 1 target at a time perspective. If one person comes in and soaks a bunk of damage and they escape, they're normally going to be replaced by someone else who ends up holding it for a given time period. Even if you lived and had MP, you wouldn't necessarily head straight back in to frontline and you had no Guard or Purify with the MP you had left. You still play on the sidelines a bit. And because I'm thinking of things in that rotating sense, MP is only as important as the circumstances surrounding it that force its importance or allow for its use. Generic MP use I would say is only important if you/your team fucked up and grouped unnecessarily to give the enemy team free splash damage. But I'd say it's situational where having MP could be useful compared to if you were allowed to just regen up and don't plan on using it regardless of if you have it.

[VoidsentStatus]

Just out of curiosity, you seem to have played on NA, did you play on EU as well? At high level? Is it similar? Different?

It would seem at least like the following so far in my experience:
NA - [grouped] [different targets a decent amount of the time due to a lack of shoutcallers. anywhere between 1-3 targets]
JP - [skirmish early, group later] [1, max 2 different targets depending on ranges. 1-2 fights breaking out surrounding the crystal but not on the crystal. JP does not care about the crystal floating in the 20-40% range for free most times as they'll just get a wipe/momentum and push to 50% if not further and end with the LB advantage they have. very momentum heavy so the early crystal movement is pretty much non-important. once the momentum starts and one team has solidified pushing the crystal, then the match stays organized as a group in most cases because now the progress to beat or extend has been set.]
EU - [skirmish] [can have organized calls but has the worst chasing out of the 3, even for the few matches I saw that had ex-crystal's, even later in the match the team can be split up and won't recall/retract chases to the crystal like what happens on JP. there wasn't a "my team has 50%+ progress, let me rubber band to the crystal and keep progress moving, it always seemed like ppl were pushing for a wipe/stagger continuation into the spawn point with 3-4 ppl sometimes instead of just having confidence in the next 5v5/4v5 fight]

also, even within the data regions, some data centers are slightly more chasing/split focus orientated as well. You're much more likely to get chased and backline harassed on Crystal or Aether than you are on Primal. They also each gravitate toward different jobs. Monks as an example can dominate NA but Mana has really good WHM's that shut down riddle consistently so you don't see as many there. Mana has notable BLM's, NIN's, WHM's, but Gaia I've had way more problems with SMN's and MCH's. And that job popularity can change how openings are handled in general while still filling the generic principle over the course of a match.

[Valence]

Now that you mention it, it's been something I've been annoyed occasionally with EU as well. It can be extremely unruly and people tend to chase like crazy. To be frank, this can also be enabled by a lack of team mutual defense and cohesion on the other end, which allows melees to bully ranged pretty effectively in some silly games. Melee DPS especially tend to be extremely individualistic and don't always work with their team. Double edged sword, because it snowballs very well when your team dominates by far (and you know the game is lost when you have the enemy running rampant everywhere around your spawn), but it also can produce the opposite effect when your backline just collapses due to a lack of cohesion. Overall very aggressively focused, which puts a lot of pressure on backlines, but at the expense of your own sometimes.

At least, that's my feeling on how EU can turn out to be.

[VoidsentStatus]

Now that you mention it, it's been something I've been annoyed occasionally with EU as well. It can be extremely unruly and people tend to chase like crazy. To be frank, this can also be enabled by a lack of team mutual defense and cohesion on the other end, which allows melees to bully ranged pretty effectively in some silly games. Melee DPS especially tend to be extremely individualistic and don't always work with their team. Double edged sword, because it snowballs very well when your team dominates by far (and you know the game is lost when you have the enemy running rampant everywhere around your spawn), but it also can produce the opposite effect when your backline just collapses due to a lack of cohesion. Overall very aggressively focused, which puts a lot of pressure on backlines, but at the expense of your own sometimes.

At least, that's my feeling on how EU can turn out to be.

Yep, I'll probably be DRG main or might pick up playing with RPR or AST instead of BRD/WHM on EU if I get into those heavy skirmish settings until I hit Crystal. Then I'll be full-time JP since I prefer range classes. I don't get tilted from losing matches, I don't even titled from performing poorly, I get tilted from having a team that does not even try to synergize and protect each other. Even when I play DRG, I'm always checking my backline ever so often to make sure no1 is harassing them while trying to get a pot off etc. Even the small actions that show "hey, I got your back", normally lead me to having better games. Even on a personal level, when I see my team abandon me and they're arms reach away despite me pinging and its not overtime, I stop caring/trying. Because in my head, I'm dead regardless and so if I see them losing the 4v4 and they literally need me in the comp to win, but won't save me, I already know it's a lost match. Any effort I give is just going to get shut down by the backline harasser and my team won't stop it.

And I know it's people who either never got to Crystal/only got to it through RNG/op job, because any true Crystal players that climbed in Crystal should know already that some matches aren't supposed to be winnable. I found out that was literally why you got inconsistent credits. So if you end up in matches with people that are literally stacked and supposed to beat you, the only hope you have is better teamwork if your individual skill is less. To not even try to work as a team is just throwing matches away literally and the voice in my head says "Why are you even here?" To me, it's like playing pickup games in the neighborhood and you never interact with people. You never pass the ball, always want to shoot yourself, never throw as a QB, trying to 1vs whatever and juke everyone in soccer. You always need someone that just hard humbles people like that and matchmaking does it from time to time, but not frequently enough to put their ego down. We had a MNK with a ego on NA for a bit that got hurt when I brought up how they were 0-5 on their main job in competitive and had to go tank. Was always talking shit, top 30 this, top 30 that, but as soon as that 1v1 ability went out of the window and he couldn't harass a backline for free performance, he got checked and went tank.

[Elfidan]

While I like the change of visuals for arenas, I feel like this is just going to be another mess most people dodge like CCT is now.