Are We Really At The Point We Consider The Classic Relic Steps Engaging And "Fun"?

[Rychu]

Because they were extremely repetitive and boring. As far as I can remember, nobody liked doing DR 15 times and nobody liked running crystal tower 20 times. Running old dgn's for low rate drops.

You were forced to do these things and don't get me started in light farming.

The classic relic steps were a massive choir that all it does is make you hate the content you're doing.

I think Bozja handled it the really bad as well because though it allowed you to get the items you needed in SF, it let you get them from old fates that were 100x more faster, that's just terrible design because all that tells you is you have to do fates.

Seriously...I honestly think people have gaslighted themselves into thinking this is fun game design. Really sorry to say that but it's true.

Why do we keep asking for old things and not new things? We as a community keep asking for new things but turn back around and ask for something old while simultaneously complaining SE doesn't change their formula.

Endwalker relic steps were a result of people complaining about the grind and now it's extremely successful because we can make our own fun by gathering tomes anyway we like while progressing the relic steps.

Endwalker made this relic extremely future proof compared to the older relics like gathering lights.

So even if you don't like endwalker solution.

Why do you ask for the old rather than asking for the new? Nobody likes a massive grind, ask for engaging content, not another snooze fest 24man grind. Do you REALLY want to do the neir raids 16 times? I doubt we do.

The difference between the old way and the new way is the sense of community. Endwalker's version is perfect as a back burner project to passively do while you do other things which is great when you want something shiny but don't want to put in work for it; however, when the content is new and everyone is farming tomes to get the weapons on their main classes it is isn't different enough from what would do normally.

Let's think about it this way, you can absolutely do any of the relic weapon grinds by yourself and not talk to a single person and it'll be a boring slog through and through. But the main advantage to the old relic weapon grinds is that adding more people makes it not only easier but just more enjoyable to spend your time doing. Stormblood and Shadowbringers especially have the benefit of being able to put together MASSIVE groups to heavily reduce the grind and also to chat and make memories with. We often forget because the dev team tries to make the game as solo player friendly as possible but we are in an MMO and the best moments we can have (besides the msq) comes from our interactions with other players. You just don't get that with Manderville.

[Jeeqbit]

nobody liked doing DR 15 times

I think that was excessive. I heard of the achievement hunters doing it something like 270 times, which is insane. Certain steps like that should be one-offs so you don't have to repeat it too much for alt jobs, or the amount of times reduced overall.

I think Bozja handled it the really bad as well because though it allowed you to get the items you needed in SF, it let you get them from old fates that were 100x more faster, that's just terrible design because all that tells you is you have to do fates.

I did enjoy doing it all in Bozja/Zadnor instead of doing old content, because it was new and also varied. I did Cluster farming which actually got me all those items you get from dungeons and this was a social experience. I farmed Skirmishes and CEs and CLL for certain other items, which was fun because it was varied and the mechanics actually threatening, often leaving up to 98% of the people there dead and having the fun of being cheered on. Any of the ones with lasers for example, the famous chocobo one, the ivalice boss and a few others.

Another reason it was fun was because it was social. We'd party up in CEs and often kept the party to farm Skirmishes and talked to eachother in that party and sometimes /shout. There was also /shout or /yell coordination in CLL. Let's compare that to Island Sanctuary which is not the least bit social, Manderville relics that at best you are going to have silent runs of the same Expert roulette dungeon, or Variant dungeons which could be done in a party but you can just solo them.

Why do we keep asking for old things and not new things?

Look what new things we got this expansion. Island Sanctuary and variant dungeons. Which many would regard as boring and lacking in social interaction compared to Eureka/Bozja.

I have no problem with them trying new things. The point is really to point them into a direction that worked previously. Whatever the 7.0 "Eureka/Bozja" is, it doesn't have to be the same. In fact, I wouldn't expect it to be. Eureka was exploring an island with out of control elements. Bozja was about a war. Dawntrail might have neither of those things, so the mechanics and concept might need to be different in a lot of ways.

It could be about sailing to different islands to do things, seeing as we are a pirate now. The point is just pushing them in a direction that worked for social interaction and actually fun and varied battles that were actually threatening, and they can innovate from there.

Endwalker relic steps were a result of people complaining about the grind and now it's extremely successful because we can make our own fun by gathering tomes anyway

We can create our own fun now by:

• farming expert roulette or hunt trains like we probably already do to reach the weekly cap.
• farming pvp (which there is already a reason to because of series rewards).
• farming variant (which there is already a reason to so you get the achievement mount).

Which effectively makes the relic a free weapon for doing nothing.

[Korbei]

If the current relics needed Poetics instead of Causality, I'd just go back to Eureka.

[Raikai]

Imo none of the methods are/were actually good. They need to experiment with something different next time.

[Boblawblah]

It's embarrassing how many people are saying this is actually Ren.

[Amenara]

I miss having a goal or something that I wanted to do in the game outside of my daily roulettes. I think it's fine if you didn't like Eureka or Bozja as they were never mandatory content but as someone else pointed out and there were a ton of reasons to do Eureka and Bozja outside of just relics. On the relic specific perspective, I guess I don't get why there was a problem with having to do side content to unlock them vs just getting them as a side effect of doing daily chores. There are already multiple other options for better weapons, so it's not like they were mandatory during the expansion for progging fights. I always saw them as something to work on throughout an expansion and give me some repeatable current content that encourages me to set a goal for myself and give me a more focused reason for playing.

[Theodric]

I think one of the strangest aspects of FFXIV's community is the frequent inability for many players to simply accept that personal tastes differ. There's an awful lot of policing in regards to what characters and content players are 'supposed to' like and dislike. A problem that has unfortunately only increased over the years.

[NekoMataMata]

I think one of the strangest aspects of FFXIV's community is the frequent inability for many players to simply accept that personal tastes differ. There's an awful lot of policing in regards to what characters and content players are 'supposed to' like and dislike. A problem that has unfortunately only increased over the years.

Wouldn't say it's that strange regarding online communities in general. I do think that it's strange for this community in particular though.


This is supposed to be one of the nicest and more welcoming online communities. Yet I have seen more aggressive witch hunting, crusading, and brigading both with alts and without on the forums, on the two main subreddits, and even on twitter than I've seen in other places related to MOBAs or shooters games.

[Raven2014]

This is supposed to be one of the nicest and more welcoming online communities. Yet I have seen more aggressive witch hunting, crusading, and brigading both with alts and without on the forums, on the two main subreddits, and even on twitter than I've seen in other places related to MOBAs or shooters games.

That's mostly the ingame community where the strict rule "be nice or else" are enforced. The forums is basically the lawless wild west.

If anyone ever want to conduct a social experiment on the necessity of law and order, they can just cite the contrast between ingame and the forum of FF14 as a source.


Also regarding the OP: not really.

- If they gonna bring back the grind of 2.0 and 3.0 for relic, then I prefer just the current method even it's as boring as it is.
- If they gonna bring back the grind of 4.0 and 5.0, then yes please.

[NekoMataMata]

That's mostly the ingame community where the strict rule "be nice or else" are enforced. The forums is basically the lawless wild west.

If anyone ever want to conduct a social experiment on the necessity of law and order, they can just cite the contrast between ingame and the forum of FF14 as a source.


Also regarding the OP: not really.

- If they gonna bring back the grind of 2.0 and 3.0 for relic, then I prefer just the current method even it's as boring as it is.
- If they gonna bring back the grind of 4.0 and 5.0, then yes please.

The thing is that it's not just the official forums. There's a massive difference of behavior between reddit, the forums, discords, twitter and in-game. The behavior outside of the game is incredibly awful, even if the opinions and beliefs of people within each platform or community differs. People on the official reddit actually doxed a couple of users over disagreements(as in they shifted through reddit profiles and pieced together information, not that the profile had that information together publicly).