Are We Really At The Point We Consider The Classic Relic Steps Engaging And "Fun"?

[Xirean]

But what about the other things in the game that are haves and have nots? Savage, Ultimate, mounts for Triple Triad, titles for fishing, being able to craft new gear because one person put in work to level and gear their DoH, players who get special rewards like the postmoogle hat because they did that side quest, and many other examples. These are all things we take a journey to obtain a reward for and only players who take that journey will obtain it. And there's nothing wrong with that because we can choose which journeys we think are worth doing and work toward them.

What about them? I've already made my stance. Do you need me to state it again?

[TaleraRistain]

What about them? I've already made my stance. Do you need me to state it again?

It was unclear if you just disagreed with relics being something that wasn't accessible to everyone or you didn't like the general idea of anything at any point requiring something that not everyone would be willing to do. And to that point, where is there anything in this game that doesn't require us to do some special task for a reward? Even the MSQ asks that you do the MSQ tasks or you don't get experience the story that goes with it.

[ForsakenRoe]

Bloody not-Renthras name making me feel like I've suddenly got dyslexia

Maybe it is him, maybe it isn't. Last time I saw this account, it was a level 50 WHM, now it's 82. If even Ren has started levelling an alt in search of 'something to do in the game' then we really have hit rock bottom. I expect it's just another of you-know-who's though.

As for the EW relic 'grind', consider this: There is a Bokuto in the Gold Saucer for 100000 MGP. A 'joke weapon' glamour, as befits the location it's gained from. Senor Sabotender weapons are all like 200k MGP, iirc. It is more of a grind for these literal 'joke weapons', than it is to do an EW relic step. How did we get to this point? I get 'futureproofing' the content, but they've gone so far in 'futureproofing' it, they've only gone and bloody 'present-proofed' it too!

[Xirean]

It was unclear if you just disagreed with relics being something that wasn't accessible to everyone or you didn't like the general idea of anything at any point requiring something that not everyone would be willing to do. And to that point, where is there anything in this game that doesn't require us to do some special task for a reward? Even the MSQ asks that you do the MSQ tasks or you don't get experience the story that goes with it.

True, however you also can't read a book or watch a movie without actually doing that. The question is in regards to rewards. And on that front I don't like exclusives. Granted I understand the idea of difficult things having some sort of reward simply because they are hard. I do not value the notion that someone is special for having done the hard thing though. That gets into the territory of elitism which I consider toxic.

[TaleraRistain]

True, however you also can't read a book or watch a movie without actually doing that. The question is in regards to rewards. And on that front I don't like exclusives. Granted I understand the idea of difficult things having some sort of reward simply because they are hard. I do not value the notion that someone is special for having done the hard thing though. That gets into the territory of elitism which I consider toxic.

I don't agree with that either. I have all my ARR relics. I advocate to streamline the book step because that was a PITA and it would be nice if future players didn't have to put up with that bs. Any effort someone puts in in the future does not have any bearing on what I did myself to obtain something. My work is still there and can't be erased. I can still be proud of that.

For this relic, I just want a journey that's more than the journey I already take. I want some unique task that is well future-proofed and gives me that sense of having to do that task as opposed to this task to obtain it. Like right now I'm working on my Big Fish title. I might have to choose if I'm making this fishing window or running this daily roulette. It's a small choice, but the choice works to give the journey value. There is a *small* choice with current relics where I need to decide if I'm spending tomes on relic pieces or tome components for my potions, but it's an inconsequential choice since it's not using a limited currency so the option is always there to obtain more.

[LianaThorne]

True, however you also can't read a book or watch a movie without actually doing that. The question is in regards to rewards. And on that front I don't like exclusives. Granted I understand the idea of difficult things having some sort of reward simply because they are hard. I do not value the notion that someone is special for having done the hard thing though. That gets into the territory of elitism which I consider toxic.

If we're going to be really honest, nothing in this game is special or exclusive since everything can be either botted or RMT'd for a clear.

Want an Ultimate or Savage clear but don't want to do the work? Take out your credit card.
Want all of your EW relics done without even needing to step into a roulette? Take out your credit card.
Want all of your gathering for the next year done for you? Take out your credit card.
Want to skip the entirety of the Pteranodon grind? Take out your credit card.

Nothing in this game is ultimately special or exclusive since you can just pay someone to do the work for you. This is why we have the thriving RMT market that we do and why people with Ultimate clears are often questionable as to how they got them. Not even housing is special since someone who bots can just be paid to buy your placard for you lol.

[Bonoki]

If we're going to be really honest, nothing in this game is special or exclusive since everything can be either botted or RMT'd for a clear.

Want an Ultimate or Savage clear but don't want to do the work? Take out your credit card.
Want all of your EW relics done without even needing to step into a roulette? Take out your credit card.
Want all of your gathering for the next year done for you? Take out your credit card.
Want to skip the entirety of the Pteranodon grind? Take out your credit card.

Nothing in this game is ultimately special or exclusive since you can just pay someone to do the work for you. This is why we have the thriving RMT market that we do and why people with Ultimate clears are often questionable as to how they got them. Not even housing is special since someone who bots can just be paid to buy your placard for you lol.

The worst part about the takeout your credit card logic is that some of these grinds are so lengthy and long, that it's actually faster for me to take a day of overtime at work and pay someone with that money than the amount of time it would have taken me on my days off to do myself. Like think about it, a single 8 hour overtime day for a clear in Savage vs 4 possible weeks of learning the fights and bashing the head against the wall.

That's mostly the ingame community where the strict rule "be nice or else" are enforced. The forums is basically the lawless wild west.

If anyone ever want to conduct a social experiment on the necessity of law and order, they can just cite the contrast between ingame and the forum of FF14 as a source.

Whenever I talk about the official forums to friends or random people I meet within the game, they always seemed surprised or shocked that I interact on here. It's always, "Who actually uses the forums?", "That place is so toxic", "It's just a bunch of unhappy crybabies in an echo chamber who doesn't represent what I really think." "They think they know what they are talking about but they really do not." It's just always forum hate and they really don't care what I have to say that I have seen posted on these forums.

[Raven2014]

Whenever I talk about the official forums to friends or random people I meet within the game, they always seemed surprised or shocked that I interact on here. It's always, "Who actually uses the forums?", "That place is so toxic", "It's just a bunch of unhappy crybabies in an echo chamber who doesn't represent what I really think." "They think they know what they are talking about but they really do not." It's just always forum hate and they really don't care what I have to say that I have seen posted on these forums.

Uh, I'm on this forum quite a bit, and I wholeheartly agree with your friends. I mean ... they are not wrong. Sure, there are meaningful conversation is here and there, but your friend impression is accurate for about the majority of the forum. Like, if you buy a newspaper and it come with 9 pages of adds + 1 page of actual news, the people who dismiss that newspaper as "just an ad flyer" is not exactly hating.

[Aword3213]

Whenever I talk about the official forums to friends or random people I meet within the game, they always seemed surprised or shocked that I interact on here. It's always, "Who actually uses the forums?", "That place is so toxic", "It's just a bunch of unhappy crybabies in an echo chamber who doesn't represent what I really think." "They think they know what they are talking about but they really do not." It's just always forum hate and they really don't care what I have to say that I have seen posted on these forums.

Pretty much my friends' reaction too. They've never visit forum, but it's always a sign of disgust whenever I bring it up.

It's like official forum has quite the notoriety.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Pretty much my friends' reaction too. They've never visit forum, but it's always a sign of disgust whenever I bring it up.

It's like official forum has quite the notoriety.

Cant blame them when there's hostility thrown constantly, from every side, in between the few grounded posts and threads that offer criticism without being toxic.

But this is just forum culture in general, especially when it comes to MMOs. The majority of the userbase isnt going to come here to play or be nice; they're coming here to vent.