Are We Really At The Point We Consider The Classic Relic Steps Engaging And "Fun"?

[TaleraRistain]

Endwalker relic steps were a result of people complaining about the grind and now it's extremely successful because we can make our own fun by gathering tomes anyway we like while progressing the relic steps.

Endwalker made this relic extremely future proof compared to the older relics like gathering lights.

So even if you don't like endwalker solution.

Why do you ask for the old rather than asking for the new? Nobody likes a massive grind, ask for engaging content, not another snooze fest 24man grind. Do you REALLY want to do the neir raids 16 times? I doubt we do.

The first two sentences are true. The Endwalker relic design gives us complete freedom in the content we choose to do for it and is more future-proofed than any other relic system we've seen so far.

However, I think part of the charm of previous systems is having some specific task you needed to do and where you had the choice to do that task or something else. You're carving out time just for that task. We can debate on exactly what the task should be. I'm in the camp that enjoy options and would like to see DoH, DoL, etc included again. I don't even mind a step or two tied to certain roulettes so you can passively collect things that way. But I think anyone who wants more than just tomes is really just asking to have to make that choice in the game. Because when we have to make the choice it makes it feel a bit more earned. We're deliberately giving up time to this task instead of what we normally do. When it's just tomes we're already collecting, you don't have that same sense of sacrificing time to do something special.

[Xirean]

However, I think part of the charm of previous systems is having some specific task you needed to do and where you had the choice to do that task or something else. You're carving out time just for that task. We can debate on exactly what the task should be. I'm in the camp that enjoy options and would like to see DoH, DoL, etc included again. I don't even mind a step or two tied to certain roulettes so you can passively collect things that way. But I think anyone who wants more than just tomes is really just asking to have to make that choice in the game. Because when we have to make the choice it makes it feel a bit more earned. We're deliberately giving up time to this task instead of what we normally do. When it's just tomes we're already collecting, you don't have that same sense of sacrificing time to do something special.

Is it bad if I consider this a positive aspect of EW relics?

[TaleraRistain]

Is it bad if I consider this a positive aspect of EW relics?

That we can do what we want?

[ChrysOCE]

Is it bad if I consider this a positive aspect of EW relics?

Then why not just drop the pretense and introduce a Causality Tomestone Weapon that gets updated with each patch? There's nothing "relic" about EW relics. No great journey or task you need to complete. Other than suffering through Manderville. Comedy weapons feel more epic, at least you have to actually work towards them.

[Xirean]

That we can do what we want?

That it's not a specifically carved out section of time task.

[TaleraRistain]

That it's not a specifically carved out section of time task.

No, not at all. The idea of it being tomes and something that you can get naturally through what you're already doing is definitely a positive for many people. That's why they're seeing an uptick in participation. But for others that's what devalues it. So it's a tricky balance they have to maintain. I think even just a special relic currency that you acquired could help. Then the relic still has that sense of something unique that I think is really all that a lot of those unhappy with tomes crave.

[ChrysOCE]

No, not at all. The idea of it being tomes and something that you can get naturally through what you're already doing is definitely a positive for many people. That's why they're seeing an uptick in participation. But for others that's what devalues it. So it's a tricky balance they have to maintain. I think even just a special relic currency that you acquired could help. Then the relic still has that sense of something unique that I think is really all that a lot of those unhappy with tomes crave.

Maybe... but it depends on how you acquire the currency. To me, the main thing with relics is that it took effort and commitment to complete. When you had your finished relic, you could look at it and think "I earned this". This current one is so devoid of any kind of sense of accomplishment, it's almost funny.

[Poporito_Popoto]

Maybe... but it depends on how you acquire the currency. To me, the main thing with relics is that it took effort and commitment to complete. When you had your finished relic, you could look at it and think "I earned this". This current one is so devoid of any kind of sense of accomplishment, it's almost funny.

Better than not doing a relic because you find the content to get it dull and not worth the effort, i.e. Bore-zjan. I did it once to get my triad card and then I was done.

[Xirean]

Then why not just drop the pretense and introduce a Causality Tomestone Weapon that gets updated with each patch? There's nothing "relic" about EW relics. No great journey or task you need to complete. Other than suffering through Manderville. Comedy weapons feel more epic, at least you have to actually work towards them.

If by "drop pretense" you mean not calling the a relic then sure. I don't care what they are called. I like that the are obtainable and future proofed without having to go into a specifically instanced "open world" map.

[Nezerius]

If by "drop pretense" you mean not calling the a relic then sure. I don't care what they are called. I like that the are obtainable and future proofed without having to go into a specifically instanced "open world" map.

If only the game already had weapons that use uncapped tomestones, both in obtaining them and further augmenting them.





Oh wait, it does! They're called "crafted weapons", with materials that are bought with uncapped tomestones (or gil, multiple options!), and then further augmented using Rain items (bought with uncapped tomestones).