Criterion Dungeon Interview

[Noumenon]

I mean not sure why you singled me out here considering BA is about the only content that I regularly do at this point, I 100% do content for the fun rather than the rewards, I have don’t way to much grinding in Bozja that has got me almost zero rewards just because I personally find it fun

Good rewards and fun content can both exist together, I personally think BA is both good content and has a strong reward structure, DRS is fun content with a terrible reward structure, C/V is boring content with a bad reward structure, I’m not opposed to evergreened older more boring content with better rewards even if it doesn’t fix the content is boring, I think both can coexist even if fun should be the priority

But I already know you think I’m insane for liking the fate grind part of field content so……..eh

I probably should've phrased my reply in a more generic sense. The dominant narrative around Criterion is about the rewards, and that occludes the real problem, so whenever I see people talking about the rewards I have the urge to chime in to say "no, it isn't just about the rewards, the actual content is bad too".

[Noumenon]

Mainly the trash but also some boss design

First: they have to design more actual tanking mechanics and dangerous trash that actually requires healing. Moving mobs about, cooldown rotation etc because they cant say "here's a tank swap" as there's no second tank. If they just made it a series of bosses instead without trash, then it would drag it out in SE's savage design.

I think the trash was interesting enough at first, but once you realize it is scripted, it became as dull as the bosses, except it's more aggravating when people keep getting hit by wind sprites despite there being a very easy way to dodge it (stand at the exact middle of the arena and move a few pixels to dodge everything). Even the wind sprite patterns are scripted and non-random, which is why you can start by dragging the first add to SW, second add to bottom half NE, and third add to exact middle.

I applaud SE for making trash dangerous, and indeed something that wiped us enough times where it truly felt different from any other trash encounter in the game. However, I do not give any award to SE for implementing it in a way that makes it yet another lame memorization script to execute the same way again, and again, and again, and again.... Sadly, the raiders who are dissatisfied with piano recitals have mostly already moved on from FF14, so the remaining pianists - a minority among gamers in general - are the ones who are content to mindlessly rehearse the same script again and again and again and again...

And dangerous trash exposes how extremely clunky tanking is in FF14. Dragging any monster should not require so much effort. It is truly bewildering to me how no one has ever commented on how dragging mobs, especially mobs with invisible casts (especially noticeable in PotD if you play a melee/tank), is extremely, extremely bad. And I wonder how much of the design is limited because of this atrocious engine. This same flaw in the engine is why sometimes you are out of range when you execute a melee-range attack on a monster that is moving somewhere despite you inside the hitbox of the monster following it. It's extremely garbage netcode where the positions of players and enemies on the client have next to no tether to reality.

[ASkellington]

So they are aware that rewards are lacking but its sadly is going to take some time for that to change.

???

How? Like seriously how? You couldn't tie it as an upgrade to crafted gear?

Another source to get a piece to augement the Comedy gear? That way if a Savage player wants two pieces a week they can get it? If you don't want people to get 2, then just allow the same progression but you must choose.

Further, Variant dungeons also need to be worked on. 1 "dungeon" with "12 paths" every other patch with mechanics that are still riddled with the problems of your normal dungeons is not what anyone really asked for.

Variant/Criterion are poorly received because you still yet to give anything that anyone asked for. Well done.

[Jennah]

Today I was reminded that Variant/Criterion dungeons exist.
Huh. Oh well.

[MisterNublet]

“The feedback we’ve received has been positive overall,” says battle content designer Masatoshi Ishikawa.

They must read r/ffxiv where even the most lukewarm takes are downvoted to oblivion, and only fanatic praise of the game is allowed.

Variant is mind-numbingly boring, and Criterion is a waste of time beyond the first run just to see how they designed the bosses.

Sadly, it isn't strange to think that they consider Variant/Criterion a success when they consider Island Sanctuary a success by how little players engage with the system except for once a week spread-sheeting.

[Oizen]

It's just a matter of rewards. There is no reason to do Variant or Savage.

I dont think it is, because criterion right now is actually one of the most time efficient ways to make gil in the game. The mounts sell higher than the PoTD horse.
And if it was wildly popular, people would do it for the sake of doing it, not for rewards.

[Noumenon]

I dont think it is, because criterion right now is actually one of the most time efficient ways to make gil in the game. The mounts sell higher than the PoTD horse.
And if it was wildly popular, people would do it for the sake of doing it, not for rewards.

The thing is there's no point to making gil for a lot of people. However I agree with you for the most part. Personally, if I wanted to make gil, I would not be doing Criterion 25 times. It is insanely dull. I would rather do something that is more enjoyable (right now that's PvP and using mogtomes to by furniture).

[IvoryHawk]

i just wonder if they'll again lower the dungeons each patch cycle, i mean they could easily spout bs nonsense like "it's hard doing these and want to give other content along with these so on criterion dungeon drops, you won't be getting an MSQ dungeon" you can say it's nonsense but they've already done this when it was 3 dungeons a patch, then 2 dungeons, now 1 dungeon, sure they gave OTHER content, but they also increased patch delay by a month no? and wasn't that because of covid? so are the perpetually behind a month now?

IMO they should have a raid tier + criterion that comes midway between the raid tier cycle at bare minimum, dropping twines/shines at the least, maybe even a grindable thing for getting the gear or equivalent gear to raid gear that's better than crafted, i don't think anyone would care that the majority of people are clearing content week 5-8 because they got better gear elseware, they REALLY need to step up their game next expansion because almost everyone i know that isn't just getting started in the game, has said they won't be raiding at all and will take it easy because they're tired of a 5 fight raid system with 4 fights worth of loot spread across 2-4 players a week in the first 3 or so weeks, the incentive for healers is literally just the "joy" of clearing till like week 3

[Payadopa]

its a success just because its not as aweful as current dng. but when i play it.. i feel like im playing some beta testing of full scale dungeons.. like theyre trying to actually finally make dungeons likable but failing short every single time

That's a good way of putting it. I like Variant, but it's still kinda meh.

[Atelier-Bagur]

But I already know you think I’m insane for liking the fate grind part of field content so……..eh

Well at least you finally admitted to it.