Let's talk about the upcoming DRG rework...

[Keichi]

Mhh, the comparision of the live Letter that they Poster, has some interessting words.
They starting with the disclaimer, that they targeted a major/core based rework on the dragoon.
But decided than, that they would fokusing on direct upgrades of what whe have now, for 7.0.

That sound for me, as if the drg rework isnt finished yet.
At last in combination with the mentioning, that they plan for more Individuality in 8.0 (will see, if they stay by that plan).

With that, does it feels like with Monk and Astro, who needed more or less 2 Expansions, for there rework.

And i know allready, what they need to do in the next expantion:
Give move number 4 a Update.^^
Combo move 3 of both rotations had a upgrade in EW. Move number 1 had a upgrade in Shb. Move 2 and 5 has a upgrade in DT.
Now, are the 4. attacks (and move 2 and 3 for aoe) the only ones left, who dont have a upgrade yet.

[Aco505]

I don't think Wheeling Thrust and Fang and Claw require an upgrade. Perhaps make them a tiny bit flashier but they're already quite good in my opinion.

Other things they could think about is having Mirage Dive give a scale and increasing the maximum amount of scales we can have to 3 while keeping WWT's cost at 2 and reduce it's CD from 10s to like 3-5s. This'll make MD and HJ more relevant overall.

Finally, something that's come up in the Balance is the possibility of making all our damage oGCDs or at least the jumps become oGCD weaponskills just like Lost Slash/Assassination in Bozja. This would open new ways for DRG to scale with SkS while making the rotation more involved in general and in Ultimates as well.

We'll see soon enough once the tooltips are released.

[Reldhir]

In the digest of the live letter, it was clarified that they didn't actually rework DRG but made it (even) more streamlined. Their reasoning is that they were not going to do major reworks of jobs and would leave that for 8.0, and so DRG was simply "expanded" like the other jobs.

Therefore, we lost the eyes in the gauge for nothing, really. Hopefully they revert that change at some point but I don't think we can expect it before the expansion after Dawntrail.

Yeah, a little disappointed to read that honestly. Just because it feels like DRG is in limbo for another expansion. I know we're not owed any promises but would be nice if we could get an out right confirmation of the direction DRG is taking. Are we keeping the same core with iterative adjustments or are we getting the rework that was extensive enough that it had to be delayed an expansion? (now 2 if its still happening)

Honestly if they never mentioned a rework everything they've done so far would be within expectations for changes to the job after each expansion. They just gotta stop dangling a rework until they're actually ready and able to implement it.

[Aco505]

Yeah, a little disappointed to read that honestly. Just because it feels like DRG is in limbo for another expansion. I know we're not owed any promises but would be nice if we could get an out right confirmation of the direction DRG is taking. Are we keeping the same core with iterative adjustments or are we getting the rework that was extensive enough that it had to be delayed an expansion? (now 2 if its still happening)

Honestly if they never mentioned a rework everything they've done so far would be within expectations for changes to the job after each expansion. They just gotta stop dangling a rework until they're actually ready and able to implement it.

Something that's also concerning is that the word "might" is used when it comes to changing jobs in 8.0. It may be that they'll leave it for 9.0 but I want to think they won't.

[HikariKurosawa]

Something that's also concerning is that the word "might" is used when it comes to changing jobs in 8.0. It may be that they'll leave it for 9.0 but I want to think they won't.

I don't think they said they were going to change jobs greatly though? How I read it was they were going to add onto the existing kit to create further distinction and make them feel more unique. The reason they didn't rework dragoon is because they are happy with how it works after a few modifications.

If it's not broke, don't fix it.

[ThorneDynasty]

Something that's also concerning is that the word "might" is used when it comes to changing jobs in 8.0. It may be that they'll leave it for 9.0 but I want to think they won't.

Well, the fact is DRG doesn't really need a rework, even if a massive overhaul of the overall design direction is needed - You could decouple the job from being a gog in the 2min meta machine just by removing/changing Battle Litany.

I'm more concerned over tanks and healers being neglected until 9.0 or beyond. DRG rework being a forgotten thought? Thank god. The preemptive feedback worked, good thing we didn't listen to the "just wait and see" and apologists.

[Aco505]

Since we now know the extent of the changes due to the media tour, I shall take this opportunity to further comment on the points outlined in a different feedback thread I wrote weeks ago:

1. Eye management being gone greatly reduces overall optimization and flexibility options for DRG.

Life of the Dragon has become more streamlined for casual players of the job but at the same time more rigid, as drifting due to player mistakes will incur greater DPS losses. The inherent GSK drift has been eliminated though, which is good.

Additionally, our gauge is pretty empty now compared to the other DPS jobs. Eyes should be returned to the gauge in some shape or form in the future.

2. LotD should last 30s so that we can keep some flexibility when it comes to burst in encounters with downtime.

With LotD becoming another personal 15% buff, GSK having a 60s cooldown and LotD lasting 20s is logical due to balance reasons.

Allowing the use of 3 NAS within 20s is a welcome change (particularly in level 70 content) yet also strange, as it basically turns LotD into an oGCD Enshroud but without the ability to end the state.

3. The DRG kit now feels disconnected. More actions just deal damage and have little synergy between them.

This remains true: only GSK, Life Surge and Wyrmwind Thrust are connected with other actions in some way.

Consider having Mirage Dive give a scale per use so that we can have some extra interaction in our kit. Additionally, increase the maximum amount of scales from 2 to 3 and keep WWT's cost the same while reducing its CD to 5 seconds.

This way, Mirage Dive will be less awkward after losing its key role in our rotation.

4. The reduction of positionals after simplifying the job's main gauge feels unnecessary.

I still think this is the case, especially since the filler phase is less involved now. Having the new 5th GCD Drakesbane getting positional status would help with this.

However, fitting True North (as well as Feint and Sprint) in 120s bursts might become a problem again whether we have 30% or 50% of our GCDs as positionals due to the high amount of weaving we will have to do and because DRG is the only melee job in the game that doesn't have extra GCDs in the rotation to move or delay positionals around.

One solution is giving either LotD or Battle Litany the True North effect that Dragon Sight had or to have Drakesbane alone become omnidirectional during our buffs. The aforementioned TN issue mentioned earlier would remain but at least we'd have some extra thinking to do between bursts.

5. Make Raiden Thrust and Draconian Fury full permanent upgrades to True Thrust and Doom Spike.

We still have True Thrust and Doom Spike at max level. Why not have the scales be granted by Drakesbane instead so that those two actions can be permanently upgraded past level 76 and 82?

6. Make Dragon Sight an upgrade to Lance Charge so that we keep the visual of the former.

Lance Charge's animation should be combined with the swirling dragon from Dragon Sight around the DRG so that we get to keep the cooler vfx and more thematic ability. It'd all remain exactly the same game play wise (i. e. a personal 60s buff).

7. Being able to use LotD in the opener is appreciated, but I think it's more detrimental to the job than good.

This point has not changed: consider revising this for 8.0 to recover and preserve job identity.

Not every job needs to have the exact same damage profiles or have access to every single resource from the start. Building up to our damage was an enjoyable element of the job, and not having LotD in the opener wasn't always an issue due to the existence of double, delayed or rushed LotD windows.

Additionally, one of the most fun things DRG could do was stack our gauges in duties were we could, such as Alliance raids, dungeons or the second part of the fourth floor of a Savage tier, whereas now the only thing we can accumulate beforehand are the scales.


Closing thoughts

In the end, most of the points I made in the OP are still true although several of the changes to DRG in Dawntrail are quite strange. Everything that was communicated did not happen and burst windows are still as packed as they were.

The third NAS in buffs is appreciated and our 1-minute bursts are strengthened but at the cost of an emptier filler and a lower potential for damage optimization due to having no gauge to stack or manage.

LotD became more streamlined but the job also lost any flexibility it had while becoming more rigid at the same time. It's all a bit contradictory.

All in all, I love the fact that it's still quite busy during burst because that's what I personally like but at the same time I wish we had more interaction in our kit besides actions just dealing damage when pressed. Mirage Dive should get something to account for the role it lost.

However, DRG has basically lost all of its optimization now and will feel quite similar regardless of the content played due to the lack of a gauge and the loss of options such as double, delayed or rushed LotD windows. This should be fixed in the future: jobs should have a low skill floor and a high skill ceiling to appeal to both casuals and veterans.

Hopefully, this feedback will be taken into account for 7.x and beyond.

[Keichi]

Mhh.
I like mostly the stuff whe saw now.
What i only hoped was, that the new jump was separated von stardiver. It looks weird, to make a big jump into the air, to land with high impact at the enemie. Only, to instantly jump again high into the air and make a even bigger impact.
I hoped, that it would be a free use and the exchange for spinshatter.

Asdide of that, came it unespected, that whe have a so busy opener.
It looks like for me, that they proudly announced a rework. Because they didnt knowed, how to evolve him anymore.
And had than probably the problem, that they doesnt found a solution or new way for the rework. And ended up with simply modifying, what whe allready had.

Where i agree is, that the drg needs a new gauge. It ist truly to empty now. And could maybe be inspiried by the monk or ninja for that.

[Noox-115]

The fact that Dragonfire dive is still 2min make me wanna vomit

[Aco505]

The fact that Dragonfire dive is still 2min make me wanna vomit

60 and 120s bursts are almost identical except for BL, DFD + RotD and an extra LS. If they had reduced DFD CD to 60s, we'd have very packed bursts every minute and drifting would be harsher for more casual players. The busy-ness would be great to me but they probably thought it was too much.

What does bother me though is that every single one of our oGCDs has falloff damage now, despite DRG being notorious for having none in ShB.