Let's talk about the upcoming DRG rework...

[Aco505]

I dread the rework. The main reasons stated to change the job is that the 2-minute windows are too busy and that they don't know what else to add to it because they feel it's complete.

While burst windows are busier than ShB, it's mostly extra 3-4 buttons under standard circumstances: one Spineshatter Dive (SSD), one Wyrmwind Thrust (WWT) and 1-2 Life Surges (LS). A direct result of the addition of charges to the older abilities and the very welcome new oGCD generated through GCDs.

However, what makes burst windows a bit tight is the fact that Battle Litany's duration was reduced to 15s. This means that nothing can ever drift, as otherwise oGCDs will start getting pushed out of one's or others' buffs. Geirskogul being an ability that always drifts due to it being unable to be queued at the end of Life windows translates into your oGCDs to slowly be pushed out of buffs. This takes some time to happen though, and most encounters have downtime that will counter it but it can still be a hassle, especially since you really want to mash the GSK button at the end of the LotD cycle.

I don't think having to double weave oGCDs for several GCDs is so busy that it requires a change. Plenty of other jobs do similar, particularly GNB and DRK. The machine gun style of 2-min bursts has made DRG even better in EW and it should stay. Reducing the number of oGCDs will make every burst window look like ShB ones or EW 1-min bursts: they will feel kinda skeletal and lacking.

There should be a job play style for everyone and DRG is quite unique in that sense as an oGCD-heavy melee DPS.

What they could do is alleviate the tightness in some ways, such as increasing Battle Litany's duration for the DRG only (party stays at 15s) and eliminating the inherent drift of GSK.

The job still has plenty of room to grow and improve. Most if not all jobs are already reaching their button and/or action limit, this is not exclusive to DRG and even RPR suffers from it due to the many AoE duplicate actions the job has.

I have made suggestions on what could be added in previous posts (such as this one: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6248231). The developers just need to be creative and try to add more elements to the flow of the job's rotation without making it overwhelming. For instance, giving purpose to those actions that feel lacking such as Dragonfire Dive (DFD).

So yeah, I dread the rework because it will likely and yet again strip even more complexity from the job. It would probably imply a removal of some positionals, a reduction of the 10-GCD string (e. g. Chaotic Spring becomes a 30/60s cooldown), a reduction of oGCD usage (e. g. DFD sharing a CD with SSD or High Jump and thus becoming the "AoE jump"), a transformation of the LotD gauge into a copy of Enshroud, etc.

These changes would be boring and bad for the job and it's not guaranteed that we'd at least get something similar to optimal drift MNK. All jobs should have the skill floor reduced but their ceiling increased so that they're desired by everyone. However, the rework will likely just lower both.

While DRG still retains some complexity and skill ceiling, it's far from difficult: you press everything on cooldown and that's it. It has to be done as perfectly as possible to perform well and it requires practice but unless downtime* is involved, only positional management (fight dependent) and LS/WWT usage require a bit of thought.

*Speaking of downtime (and encounter specifics such as 2-target availability), it's practically the only thing carrying job skill ceiling and optimization right now. Dummy fights become boring fast DPS-wise but that's a different topic.

The 2-min meta has been a good idea, despite the memes and negativity. The playing field is now even and it allows all jobs to have similar potential, unlike ShB where some thrived (2-min jobs like SAM, NIN, DNC) and some didn't. Jobs are fairly balanced even if there's still problems to address such as caster balance, p. range identity and so on.

However, following the idea that the most important damage window has to be the 2-min for everyone is limiting their design: why can't we have jobs that are very good at sustained damage, some that are very good at burst, some in between?

We do have something similar to this right now (e. g. tank damage distribution) but I feel like they should expand on it while keeping balance (i. e. overall same damage over N amount of minutes). That'd give them more freedom and avoid jobs feeling so similar to one another.

TL; DR. The rework is worrying. If DRG has to be changed, it has to be for the better and not to reduce ability usage or skill ceiling just for the sake of it. Expand and give a purpose to those abilities instead of pruning or limiting them.

[Rychu]

Dragoon has never been my main by any means, but it was a job that I enjoyed leveling and playing. People would probably be more excited for the rework if the dev's track record with reworks was better. To play devil's advocate, I didn't mind Paladin's rework all that much. It wasn't a crazy fix, but I think it is a good base for future development. Honestly, all of the pessimism probably stems from Summoner which is totally fair.

Based on my experience, dragoon does need a rework based on the sheer amount of buttons it has. Sure with an mmo mouse you can definitely make it work and even fun when you get in the groove but if you drift ever or god forbid die you are just fucked in your rotation. The question of the hour is what are they going to do to fix that? And with their track record I do not have a lot of faith that they will replace the clunky but appealing 10 gcd rotation with something equally engaging with less buttons.

I would prefer if they just went the route of having buttons replace other buttons as they are pressed, Dragoon already has a bunch that will change into something else if you are doing your rotation properly so I would just lean into that more. Or just let me have a dragon rider form... I think that would be pretty neat.

At the end of the day, the developers need to be more open about what they want their fight and job design to be. As the game known for saving itself from the brink of failure due to how open and active the developers were with the player base, they sure as shit aren't doing that now. Why do we balance fights around a 2 minute meta, but create situations where not all jobs have the ability to perform their 2 minute burst (RDM in P12S)? Why do we rework jobs to appeal to people who didn't like the job before the rework and still won't like it after the rework? Why do we need to gut almost every job during their reworks? Is it because the dev team isn't big enough to balance the jobs? Then hire more for fucks sake, I know that that is a "no shit sherlock" answer but its because it is. Every single player you see post Heavensward is guaranteed to be paying $12 bucks a month to be there, plus the amount of money they make from retainers and the cash shop. There is little excuse for not having enough man power when we see the financial reports every year showing the success of this game.

TLDR: Give me dragon riding or give me death

[Aco505]

dragoon does need a rework based on the sheer amount of buttons it has. Sure with an mmo mouse you can definitely make it work and even fun when you get in the groove

It's one of the jobs with the lowest amount of buttons to bind in the hotbars and has no AoE duplicates. See here and here.

but if you drift ever or god forbid die you are just fucked in your rotation.

That's the case for most jobs, and especially gauge jobs like RPR, MCH, RDM, BRD... some are more punished than others though (e. g. DRG, RPR, BRD...).

[ElysiumDragon]

Given that this rework is happening alongside AST specifically, I suspect the reworks are being done to make the jobs more controller-friendly, as DRG has the Dragon Sight issue, and AST is borderline unplayable in high-end content on a controller. I'm cautiously optimistic about it.

[CidHeiral]

To be fair, I haven't conceived of every possible design DRG could have across an infinite spectrum, so for all I know the rework may be even better. However, given the trend of reworks up to this point I am very concerned that DRG is going to get severely dumbed down. People who like simple jobs already have several options to choose from. If everything is simplified, what do people who like busy/complex jobs do? Just quit?

[Mostly_Raxus]

DRG is already about as braindead as it can be, its just a matter of click the glowing key and keep all your jumps on CD cept wen saving them for the soon to be burst window..
its problem is button bloat, i dont need 6 different jumps that all do basically the same thing, i dont need 5 line AOEs that do the same thing, i dont need 3 1-2-3 rotations that do the same thing.. what i would give for a macro to tell if im on the side or back so i dont need 2 button slots in my core rotation taken up by fang and claw and wheeling thrust...
high jump/ mirage dive being on the same button was a godsend to me, too bad it cost some dps so we had to loose that QoL faster than we got it..
and boy do i love trying to sync all four "buff" buttons in to a single GCG when server ticks decide "the heck you will"

i dont need an easier class, just a less cluttered mess of dart bord ideals drg has turned in to.
edit: also make the class function at low levels, think we are 26 before we even have a 1-2-3 combo..

[ZiraZ]

DRG is already about as braindead as it can be, its just a matter of click the glowing key and keep all your jumps on CD cept wen saving them for the soon to be burst window..
its problem is button bloat, i dont need 6 different jumps that all do basically the same thing, i dont need 5 line AOEs that do the same thing, i dont need 3 1-2-3 rotations that do the same thing.. what i would give for a macro to tell if im on the side or back so i dont need 2 button slots in my core rotation taken up by fang and claw and wheeling thrust...
high jump/ mirage dive being on the same button was a godsend to me, too bad it cost some dps so we had to loose that QoL faster than we got it..
and boy do i love trying to sync all four "buff" buttons in to a single GCG when server ticks decide "the heck you will"

i dont need an easier class, just a less cluttered mess of dart bord ideals drg has turned in to.
edit: also make the class function at low levels, think we are 26 before we even have a 1-2-3 combo..

dunning krugerposting or a new copypasta?

[CidHeiral]

dunning krugerposting or a new copypasta?

That is who jobs are being redesigned to cater to.

[Godzillaxpowerrangers]

After what happened to pla, summoner, and samurai I have no hope for dragoon rework.

[Rychu]

After what happened to pla, summoner, and samurai I have no hope for dragoon rework.

I totally get where you are coming from with summoner and samurai's reworks, I am not a fan of the direction they took. But in all honesty I don't mind current Paladin all that much, it isn't that much different where I needed to rethink how I use it in any content that I do. Do you mind going into detail for your dislike of it? No sarcasm, I am just genuinely perplexed at the community's view of the job right now