Let's talk about the upcoming DRG rework...

[Rxvenluvsducks]

When did I complain about dawntrail dragoon being more difficult than the previous iterations? I am a from software gamer primarily, difficulty is not a complaint for me. I am just stating the fact that dawntrail dragoon is more difficult inputs than previous iterations, this is objectively true. Most posters here are saying it has been simplified for casuals, meanwhile it's the hardest iteration of the job. It's not contrived anymore, there's no unintuitive nonsense in the sequencing, it's just more difficult where it counts. Parsers are complaining because they don't get free score compared to their peers who didn't educate themselves on the contrived parts of the rotation.

Are you high or does Yoshi P need to bring back Heavensward level combat system back for you to wake up to your senses.

[HikariKurosawa]

Are you high or does Yoshi P need to bring back Heavensward level combat system back for you to wake up to your senses.

It was hard for you back then because you were a noob. You act like it is lost history that can't be referenced. We have the internet lol, anyone can look up how the job was back then.

[Rxvenluvsducks]

It was hard for you back then because you were a noob. You act like it is lost history that can't be referenced. We have the internet lol, anyone can look up how the job was back then.

I wasn't even around during heavensward I was a child. aside from that it doesn't take two plus two to find out how a certain job acted back during other dlcs. Instead of asking anyone to look up how the job was back then, why don't you try it? Go out in crowded places (not Limsa i wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy to go there for questions) in game and ask to players in shout chat what do they feel about dragoon in dlcs such as Heavensward, Shadowbringers and Endwalker. You'll find a reality check there.

[therpgfanatic]

All I can say about Dragoon is that they should make the Jump attacks make you invulnerable, like in every other FF game. Locking you in place but still taking damage from attacks s the main problem with Dragoon, especially since the Jumps are so important to the damage.

[Schan]

ok... having recently reached 100, there are some thoughts.

Now, I haven't sat down and tried to optimize it yet so take this as purely feelscrafting:

I know everyone complained about dragon sight. I personally never had any issues with it so I got nothing to say. Would have to sit down and do numbers crunching to figure out if the new self buffs compensate for the loss of dragon sight.

The thing I find concerning is that the devs mentioned they wanted to rework dragoon because it had too many buttons to push and it felt overwhelming for casuals. Now, I understand the rework was scrapped but if they still wanted to go down that path I think they have failed. Every job now feels like once you hit the 2 minute mark you have to "press all the buttons!" and I would guess that the fact that DRG's oGCDs are now combos (which you need to complete within 20 seconds) it'll add extra stress to those who are less experienced. For me personally it'll be fun to figure out their priority and probably boring once i've cracked the puzzle since it feels like the job has been made more straightforward.

The eyes were both flexible and inflexible. It had a certain degree of flexibility that made the job really fun to optimize in certain fights (or you know... attempt to fix your mistakes) but I can't deny it was a bit of a pain in dungeons


Considering we can't change the kit for the next 2 years, DRG still needs some QoL improvements:
- Starcross needs to have a range of 20 yalms. In our entire kit especially the jumps have a 20 yalm range. I have no idea why our lvl 100 ability was given 3 yalms range (actually I do know why but i'l l be going on a tangent.)... considering that it's obviously a jump. This limitation feels really bad in dungeons in particular when you're aoeing.

- After pressing Fang and Claw / Wheeling Thrust the skill that changes to Drakesbane is the opposite one you didn't use. Up until this point the game only teaches you that the skill that changes is the one you've just used. On top of that it doesn't disable the one you've just pressed so it's VERY easy for you to erroneously press Fang and Claw or Wheeling Thrust twice. I kind of understand why this was done since it keeps our muscle memory from doing Fang and Claw -> Wheeling Thrust (or vice-versa) but uuuh...I have been heavily conditioned from playing other jobs that the skill that changes is the one that you have just pressed. Might just be growing pains but accidentally breaking combo like that gives me the big sad.


I still strongly dislike the animation from Winged Glide. It's an irrational thing by now and I'm not getting used to it no matter how much I use it. It just literally makes me feel bad so it has been banished from my hotbar.

We'll see if the devs do any adjustments.

[Aco505]

The eyes were both flexible and inflexible. It had a certain degree of flexibility that made the job really fun to optimize in certain fights (or you know... attempt to fix your mistakes) but I can't deny it was a bit of a pain in dungeons

Dungeons are worse as DRG now because you cannot adjust your LotD cycle depending on the speed of the group. For instance, if the tank is slow or stops for 10 seconds in one pull and then moves again, you have to press GSK in the first group and with the timer being 20s now you have less wiggle room.

Or if GSK comes back just before a boss when the current group of trash is at like 60%, you have to press GSK and likely waste seconds of the buff because otherwise you're stuck using the basic AoE combo, thus making it all last longer. This was always the case before but it's now worse because of the rigidity of the new LotD.

- Starcross needs to have a range of 20 yalms. In our entire kit especially the jumps have a 20 yalm range. I have no idea why our lvl 100 ability was given 3 yalms range (actually I do know why but i'l l be going on a tangent.)... considering that it's obviously a jump. This limitation feels really bad in dungeons in particular when you're aoeing.

- After pressing Fang and Claw / Wheeling Thrust the skill that changes to Drakesbane is the opposite one you didn't use. Up until this point the game only teaches you that the skill that changes is the one you've just used. On top of that it doesn't disable the one you've just pressed so it's VERY easy for you to erroneously press Fang and Claw or Wheeling Thrust twice. I kind of understand why this was done since it keeps our muscle memory from doing Fang and Claw -> Wheeling Thrust (or vice-versa) but uuuh...I have been heavily conditioned from playing other jobs that the skill that changes is the one that you have just pressed. Might just be growing pains but accidentally breaking combo like that gives me the big sad.

I still strongly dislike the animation from Winged Glide. It's an irrational thing by now and I'm not getting used to it no matter how much I use it. It just literally makes me feel bad so it has been banished from my hotbar.

Agreed. All our oGCDs should have a range of 20y and we shouldn't be able to fat finger Fang and Claw and Wheeling Thrust, the functionality should be as it was in EW.

Winged Glide is not only a dash instead of a jump, but also has an animation lock that is curiously as high as a jump's when it should be like any normal oGCD's.

[Noox-115]

ok... having recently reached 100, there are some thoughts.

Now, I haven't sat down and tried to optimize it yet so take this as purely feelscrafting:

The thing I find concerning is that the devs mentioned they wanted to rework dragoon because it had too many buttons to push and it felt overwhelming for casuals. Now, I understand the rework was scrapped but if they still wanted to go down that path I think they have failed. Every job now feels like once you hit the 2 minute mark you have to "press all the buttons!" and I would guess that the fact that DRG's oGCDs are now combos (which you need to complete within 20 seconds) it'll add extra stress to those who are less experienced. For me personally it'll be fun to figure out their priority and probably boring once i've cracked the puzzle since it feels like the job has been made more straightforward.


Considering we can't change the kit for the next 2 years, DRG still needs some QoL improvements:
- Starcross needs to have a range of 20 yalms. In our entire kit especially the jumps have a 20 yalm range. I have no idea why our lvl 100 ability was given 3 yalms range (actually I do know why but i'l l be going on a tangent.)... considering that it's obviously a jump. This limitation feels really bad in dungeons in particular when you're aoeing.


I still strongly dislike the animation from Winged Glide. It's an irrational thing by now and I'm not getting used to it no matter how much I use it. It just literally makes me feel bad so it has been banished from my hotbar.

We'll see if the devs do any adjustments.

(had to shorten your post it wouldn't let me reply)

To be fair the reason I like the EW DRG more is that every skill was perfectly time for you to use it once every 2 min, 1min and 30 sec all skill of DRG in EW are a multiple of 30 sec so you can actually have skill to use out of your burst to make the job more dynamic without being overwhelming for some one of the reason why I dont like DRG now is because you got nothing out of your burst but jump and when you use Geirskogul you just throw everthing you have ready so the new DRG just feel super slow out of your burst even if you have something rdy you are lsoft lock from pressing them because you have to wait for your buff+burst

As for winged gilde same not only it look bad but its also badly design not only its 60sec CD it's only on Target and not on party members unlike Monk and Viper that have it in 30 sec but bettter. I deleted it from my hotbar as well I rather use Elusive Jumb its literally just better for quick movement from A to B.

On that I will add : I tried out Reaper again and holy shit that I needed it they are fast hit hard and have 2 gauge to manage without being look behind a 1 min attack that sofft lock you from using all your attacks and its In and Out teleport is just amazing it does everything DRG propose but better with more flexibility because when you are rdy to burst you can burst straight up

[Schan]

(had to shorten your post it wouldn't let me reply)

To be fair the reason I like the EW DRG more is that every skill was perfectly time for you to use it once every 2 min, 1min and 30 sec all skill of DRG in EW are a multiple of 30 sec so you can actually have skill to use out of your burst to make the job more dynamic without being overwhelming for some one of the reason why I dont like DRG now is because you got nothing out of your burst but jump and when you use Geirskogul you just throw everthing you have ready so the new DRG just feel super slow out of your burst even if you have something rdy you are lsoft lock from pressing them because you have to wait for your buff+burst

Apologies, my post was getting quite long already and it was just a surface level feedback thing.

I agree. I feel like EW DRG was really solid and my concern was that I didn't see much to improve upon.

I am struggling to put this into words but:

I normally imagine key presses in a graph in my mind. EW DRG had a certain degree of "busy work" that had a slight spike on the 2 minute mark. DT DRG feels like a massive spike on the 2 minute mark, followed by basically nothing and then every minute you get an increase of button presses (i would dare say our in between bursts is kind of like EW, except EW's lasted for longer)

In summary it feels like the kit in DT is very polarized when it comes to distribution of key presses and since DRG is one of the slowest melees (GCDs are usually 2.45 to 2.55 if my memory does not fail me) the downtime feels incredibly slow at times, especially when contrasted with the high volume of button presses you just had to do during burst phase.

Also I hate this trend of matching the more elaborate mechanics to the 2 minute mark, especially when the devs are starting to turn every dps into "random bull go" at the 2 minute mark. I can only imagine how egregious this is for casters.

[Palladiamors]

You know someone have never played a true hard game when they consider Dark souls serie and elden ring difficult.

How about you stow that weird superiority complex? I started off on Nintendo hard games back in the nineties and I can tell you the Fromsoft games are difficult.

But I am curious about what games you consider hard,? What is your measuring stick here?

[Magikazam]

How about you stow that weird superiority complex? I started off on Nintendo hard games back in the nineties and I can tell you the Fromsoft games are difficult.

But I am curious about what games you consider hard,? What is your measuring stick here?

It not a superiority complex, I just don't think fromsoft game are hard to play ''mechanicly wise'' it mostly about knowledge of how to craft a build. That aside, the games don't punish you that much for dying, you just lose a bit of hp (assuming you had grace/ember/humanity on) and Souls, an infinitely farmable currency (They even let you pick it back up if you don't die b4 reaching it again). In 90% of zones, you can simply past running most of the mobs if you don't feel confident fighting them and just rush to the boss zone, where you can summon up to two people to help you fight the boss. Even too enemy deal lots of damages, there a lots of way to heal yourself, hell in Dark souls 2 the lifegems are broken op and trivialise the game. Again, if you struggle vs a boss, there no real punishment except walking back there an being blocked in progression until you beat it.

Now compare that to let say, idk, any one of those old NES or arcade game that where made to be difficult (so you waste money on them, in Arcade case) or just any rage game that are built in with mechanic such as no saving or having litteraly one hp and no checkpoints. Like just take idk Contra for exemple, you struggle at the final boss? well each time you want to attempt the boss, you need to do the whole game again and if you lose or use any ressources they gone for good. Idk that sound more hard than Dark souls that ask me to sprint for like, 1 minutes to get back and attempt the boss again.

Imo even FFXIV can be harder if you attempt a Necromancer run on POTD, you can even add aditional layers of difficulty by choosing differents class. Did you know only 10 person achieved a Necromancer run with Astro on NA Datacenters?