[Discuss] Bringing back mitigation-damage interaction

[Mikey_R]

Then hold the existing system to that same standard.

Current system doesn't sacrifice DPS from the tank in order to use a defensive, whether the healer takes advantage of that or not to increase the parties DPS is then down to the healer and, if they do not, you effectively aren't losing out on DPS.

I also never said using a defensive is pointless unless it produces rDPS, I said that a defensive that costs you DPS is inferior when you have defensives that do NOT cost DPS.

It was a blatant tuning issue atop a cluster**** of a mechanic, wherein only one tank could actually change stances without crippling cost in more than a single direction per fight. How is that remotely a sane test case?

I don't know why, but a bit got missed off, Paladin using Sheltron to proc Shield Swipe, Warrior using Vengeance only for the stack, Dark Knight using Dark Dance to proc Low Blow IIRC (I don't remember fully how their interaction worked), all cases where defensives were used to prioritise DPS. In the case of Warrior, there was a caveat where you could do it as long as you didn't need it, of which groups would work around it as much as possible.

Again, no, that's not the case. You're conflating tuning issues based on what is probably the most overpowered period tanks have ever experienced and, more importantly, the most banal period healing gameplay has ever experienced.

No I didn't. You said it could be moved around, I meerly stated that the goal would be to reduce the usage down to 0, which is what the goal would be, assuming you can cover everything with the other defensives. That is literally all i said on that point.

Because, much like a situation where at-cost (i.e., non-Lily, GCD) heals can be of use (net gain) can let healers feel more like healers, having a place for at-cost tools on tanks rewards awareness of their party's output and opportunities relative to their own personal outputs, which can make them feel more like actual Tanks.

What is it about something that reduces the tanks DPS to increase their mitigation makes it feel more like a tank? In the case of healers, they try and reduce the amount of GCD healing as much as possible, choosing to GCD heal in downtimes where possible. However, even if the healer has to GCD heal when they could DPS, the difference here is that you aren't sacrificing your GCD for the chance that someone else might have a higher GCD, you do it because the party would be dead, so it is a guaranteed party DPS increase. As opposed to tank mitigation which is a maybe, maybe not situation (unless you can effectively communicate with the healer, but that isn't feasible in all scenarios and is limited to statics that use voice comms).

Consider if DPS had the current Tank treatment here:

Rather than depending at all on uptime, especially back when uptime could actually require some skill to maintain, or any other more varied level of optimization... you instead just have a set of CDs by which to do your damage. No more, no less. You quickly map out or look up online what the best time is to hit those CDs, and that's it. That's your role -- done. Anything else is shared mechanics. For your own role, there's no nuance, no shifting priorities, no real awareness checks; you just follow your schedule.

That's what your insisting is a preferable state for tanks and healers.

That is what defensives look like now, that is what defensives will look like after. Mapping out defensives to use the DPS reduction as little as possible (ideally 0) to help the healers more effectively use their healing tools, because guess what? Healers also map out all their healing oGCDs too. And really, when you get down to it, DPS do map out everything as well, when to use Feint, Second wind etc. Anyone who has progged a fight can probably tell you where they are in a fight based on where they are in their rotation. Like it or not, everything is mapped out. That is the reality.

[Rithy255]

Doubt they will, DT will likely be another double down on SHB design.
Half expecting them to give us the healer rotation next expansion with how things are going lol.

Game can't have any complexity or any "choices" or even the illusion of choice, why bother making things work when theirs always the easy solution of making everything the same and easier to play. The casual playerbase won't likely mind.

is it solvable to have more interesting "stances" yes, but is it easy to do? nope. Why would they bother going the hard route that might get people upset or confused on whens the right time to use a offensive stance or a defensive stance.