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  1. #1
    Player
    aveyond-dreams's Avatar
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    Sep 2021
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    2,305
    Character
    Fenris Pendragon
    World
    Spriggan
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80

    FFXIV as a FFXVI Valisthea MMORPG

    ***Please note that the following is a proposed fan-made concept that seeks to reimagine FFXIV taking after FFXVI’s elements and not official Square Enix material, and is merely for speculative and entertainment purposes. Mild spoilers for the world of FFXVI are present to some degree in the following post(s).***



    300 years prior to the events of FFXVI, Crystalline Dominion is little more than a halmet. Though typically shunned by society, the recent period of geopolitical instability has meant that some chosen few bearers have been given express permission from their nation states to venture abroad on behalf of their countries to solve issues.

    Storylines...


    • “The False Mythos”
    Rogue disciple of the Circle of Malius believes he is the prophesised Mythos and begins attacking other Dominants. In truth, he is the Dominant of Odin empowered by a blood ritual that enables him to partially consume the essences of other eikons. After absorbing Phoenix’s power and fusing both eikons together, he claims the title Diabolos and is fought and killed in the Interdimensional Rift. Diabolos acts as an early ally/tutorial friend in disguise regardless of starter nation.

    • “The Quest for Holy”
    The National Sanbrequois Questline. The order of the knight dragoons have been sent on a quest to find the legendary tome containing the spell Holy in the hopes it will heal their dying prince but no one has heard from each dragoon since. The player is tasked with bringing each of them back. Loosely based off the quest for the Holy Grail.

    • “The Roses of May”
    The National Rosarian Questline (progression locked after a certain point due to base main story involvement). The lady knight Ovelia is tasked with protecting the current Dominant of Phoenix, as a feud unfurls at court that would see the country rent in twain. Loosely based off the War of the Roses / Henry VI.

    • “The Wrath of Heaven”
    The National Veldermarke Questline. The Dominant of Ramuh flees the court when the king begins to prod him about the whereabouts of the forbidden black magic spell, Meteor.

    • “Reverie Unto the Skies”
    Fallen expansion based in the skies, relieve the history and assault on the crystal of dzemeskys. Set across various mechanical islands that float in the sky above Valisthea. Explores the perspective of the first people to realize the dark truth of the Mothercrystals.

    • “Tears for Metia”
    A Kanver academic flees to the North after discovering Summon magic, pursued by both evil elements from Kanver and the Circle of Malius itself. However, the chieftainess of the North would use that dread power for her own ends and further her own conquest of the neighbouring disputed territories.

    • “The Sorceress War”
    Cantered around Artemesia, the future mother of Barnabas, picking up the pieces of Diabolos’s corpse to bring him back to life and mate with him so that she can birth a proper dominant for Odin after his failure. Though originally thought she wanted to bring him back, she immediately murders him and turns on the player character. She is defeated but escapes by traveling to the future. Effectively she wins and raises Barnabas, indoctrinating him into the cult’s teachings and thus we have an explanation for why there haven’t been many records of Odin’s dominants in history. When the party returns, the Blight begins to spread starting at the site where the witch was defeated.


    Character Creation...


    • Origin
    This takes the place of racial selection. Roughly speaking, Rosarians would be akin to Midlanders-Highlanders, Sanbrequois citizens would be akin to Viera sans the inverse height difference between men and women, Dhalmekians would be akin to Roegadyn or Hrothgar builds, and Veldermarkeans would have the shorter, more lithe builds of Miqote. There is no Lalafell or Auri equivalent. To compensate for the lack of races other than humans, various accessories such as Viera ears, Miqote ears, and Auri horns would be available for players to earn as customization for their characters as well.

    • Brand
    Prior to the standardization of Bearer brands in the later eras of Valisthean history, there was much discrepancy between brands. As such, some Bearers may have been branded with emblems of their nations, their eikons, or even runic incantations anywhere on their bodies, including full body tattoos. Due to the geopolitical turmoil in Valisthea at this time, some Bearers may have no brands at all due to having escaped testing at birth.



    • Starting Nation
    This differs from Origin, as Starting Nations denote the nation the player character begins their journey in. This would be either Rosaria, Dhalmekia, Sanbreque, or Veldermarke. Players of different nations may change their allegiance by speaking to shady individuals in each city in order to exchange their starting signet rings for those of their desired nation. This will allow them to participate in Conquest on behalf of the new nation as well as participate in Nation-locked storylines.



    Jobs...































    Systems...


    • Talent Trees and Abilities
    The various jobs that can be unlocked in Valisthea can be customized to the player’s playstyle using talent trees. In this way, a Red Mage may choose to specialize in offensive debuffs or take on a more supporting role as a healer. Dragoons may choose to focus on tanking skills or damage skills, and so on.

    • Story Dungeons
    Dungeons that are unlocked over the course of a given expansion story that can be queued for from anywhere in the world. They include sieges, battlefield, and other non-revisitable events and locations. They reward gear with no additional passive effects.

    • Overworld Levelling
    Overworld enemies will be scaled to sufficiently challenge the player according to the level appropriate for the region, but can mostly be soloed without the need for a full party. Notorious monsters in the overworld may sometimes drop gear with passive effects.

    • Open-World Dungeons
    Dungeons that may be visited at any time scattered throughout the world. They cannot be queued for directly and can be explored solo or with a party. Enemies and notorious monsters may sometimes drop gear with passive effects.

    • Conquest
    The political map of Valisthea is in constant flux. Orabelle Downs today might belong to Sanbreque, but by the next moon it may belong to Rosaria instead. By defeating monsters in regions as members of a specific nation, that nation’s influence will increase in said area. This allows for region-specific vendors to peddle their wares in that nation’s main city, selling items at reduced prices. Players from other nations will still be able to purchase a reduced selection of said items, marked up at a premium. Such items include equipment as well as items used for crafting.

    • PVP

    Crystal Battlefield
    A large scale battlefield where players are divided into 2 teams representing 2 randomized nations. The players claim and harvest Crystals akin to Onsal Hakair (Danshig Naadam), while eikons duel in the background.

    Crystal Skirmish
    A small scale battlefield akin to Crystalline Conflict.

    (6)
    Last edited by aveyond-dreams; 09-15-2023 at 05:43 AM.
    Авейонд-сны


  2. #2
    Player
    Threneras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2023
    Posts
    26
    Character
    Thren Ras
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    There are so MANY issues with this I don't even know where to begin. You don't get to BULLY CBU3 into making games just for your PERSONAL desire.

    300 years prior to the events of FFXVI, Crystalline Dominion is little more than a halmet. Though typically shunned by society, the recent period of geopolitical instability has meant that some chosen few bearers have been given express permission from their nation states to venture abroad on behalf of their countries to solve issues.
    Not EVERYONE wants to have Valisthea as a setting in FF14. There were MANY people who disliked the setting because it was too dark and too political. FF14 intentionally DROPPED the dark political story because most players hated it and wanted something to destress when they're playing.

    Quote Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams View Post

    Storylines...

    • “The False Mythos”
    Rogue disciple of the Circle of Malius believes he is the prophesised Mythos and begins attacking other Dominants. In truth, he is the Dominant of Odin empowered by a blood ritual that enables him to partially consume the essences of other eikons. After absorbing Phoenix’s power and fusing both eikons together, he claims the title Diabolos and is fought and killed in the Interdimensional Rift. Diabolos acts as an early ally/tutorial friend in disguise regardless of starter nation.
    No, STOP it with this blood ritual and Odin setting. It's too dark and most players don't like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams View Post
    • “The Quest for Holy”
    The National Sanbrequois Questline. The order of the knight dragoons have been sent on a quest to find the legendary tome containing the spell Holy in the hopes it will heal their dying prince but no one has heard from each dragoon since. The player is tasked with bringing each of them back. Loosely based off the quest for the Holy Grail.
    This is a decent quest idea but it seems VERY underdeveloped.

    Quote Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams View Post
    • “The Roses of May”
    The National Rosarian Questline (progression locked after a certain point due to base main story involvement). The lady knight Ovelia is tasked with protecting the current Dominant of Phoenix, as a feud unfurls at court that would see the country rent in twain. Loosely based off the War of the Roses / Henry VI.
    No, people DON'T WANT court politics storylines, that's why they completely stopped talking about Ul'dah after Heavensward, because players hated the convoluted political storyline since it was too hard to follow.

    Quote Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams View Post
    • “The Wrath of Heaven”
    The National Veldermarke Questline. The Dominant of Ramuh flees the court when the king begins to prod him about the whereabouts of the forbidden black magic spell, Meteor.
    AGAIN, why is there so much occult/dark stories in your setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams View Post
    • “Reverie Unto the Skies”
    Fallen expansion based in the skies, relieve the history and assault on the crystal of dzemeskys. Set across various mechanical islands that float in the sky above Valisthea. Explores the perspective of the first people to realize the dark truth of the Mothercrystals.
    ANOTHER dark story. Geez, you know you need some levity so players don't get stressed out right?

    Quote Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams View Post
    • “Tears for Metia”
    A Kanver academic flees to the North after discovering Summon magic, pursued by both evil elements from Kanver and the Circle of Malius itself. However, the chieftainess of the North would use that dread power for her own ends and further her own conquest of the neighbouring disputed territories.
    Again, political storylines don't appeal to FF14 players, who are VERY different from FF16 players.

    Quote Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams View Post
    • “The Sorceress War”
    Cantered around Artemesia, the future mother of Barnabas, picking up the pieces of Diabolos’s corpse to bring him back to life and mate with him so that she can birth a proper dominant for Odin after his failure. Though originally thought she wanted to bring him back, she immediately murders him and turns on the player character. She is defeated but escapes by traveling to the future. Effectively she wins and raises Barnabas, indoctrinating him into the cult’s teachings and thus we have an explanation for why there haven’t been many records of Odin’s dominants in history. When the party returns, the Blight begins to spread starting at the site where the witch was defeated.
    This CULT and MURDER storyline is too dark for FF14.

    Quote Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams View Post
    Character Creation...
    • Origin
    This takes the place of racial selection. Roughly speaking, Rosarians would be akin to Midlanders-Highlanders, Sanbrequois citizens would be akin to Viera sans the inverse height difference between men and women, Dhalmekians would be akin to Roegadyn or Hrothgar builds, and Veldermarkeans would have the shorter, more lithe builds of Miqote. There is no Lalafell or Auri equivalent. To compensate for the lack of races other than humans, various accessories such as Viera ears, Miqote ears, and Auri horns would be available for players to earn as customization for their characters as well.
    You DO realize that Miqo'te, Lalafell, and Au Ra are the most popular races right?

    Quote Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams View Post
    • Brand
    Prior to the standardization of Bearer brands in the later eras of Valisthean history, there was much discrepancy between brands. As such, some Bearers may have been branded with emblems of their nations, their eikons, or even runic incantations anywhere on their bodies, including full body tattoos. Due to the geopolitical turmoil in Valisthea at this time, some Bearers may have no brands at all due to having escaped testing at birth.

    Do we really need a SLAVE race in the game? That will get it banned from MANY countries and it's HIGHLY inappropriate.

    Quote Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams View Post
    • Starting Nation
    This differs from Origin, as Starting Nations denote the nation the player character begins their journey in. This would be either Rosaria, Dhalmekia, Sanbreque, or Veldermarke. Players of different nations may change their allegiance by speaking to shady individuals in each city in order to exchange their starting signet rings for those of their desired nation. This will allow them to participate in Conquest on behalf of the new nation as well as participate in Nation-locked storylines.
    This is a good idea. It's great to put a short story reason to switch your starting nation, BUT you need to also allow people who DON'T WANT to talk to these shady individuals to have another way of switching.

    Quote Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams View Post
    Jobs...

    [HB]

























    You really need to STOP PUSHING the blood magic/occult/dark themes. Right now, most players enjoy Summoner because they get to summon mighty primals and have a cute Carbuncle. VERY FEW people WANT Summoner to be associated with "blood magic". You seriously need to tone down on all these occult/blood magic business, geez.

    Quote Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams View Post
    Systems...
    • Talent Trees and Abilities
    The various jobs that can be unlocked in Valisthea can be customized to the player’s playstyle using talent trees. In this way, a Red Mage may choose to specialize in offensive debuffs or take on a more supporting role as a healer. Dragoons may choose to focus on tanking skills or damage skills, and so on.
    No, you DO realize why FF14 doesn't have a talent tree right? Talent trees are an illusion of choice. You don't actually get to CHOOSE what you want to play as because the meta will pick it for you.

    .

    Talent trees also invite bullying (trust me, I've been on the end of this in other MMOs when I dared to choose a 2% worse spec and I got HARASSED and BULLIED non-stop by my guild until I changed). Anyone who doesn't follow the one true META build is going to get kicked out of their statics or kicked out of duty finder. You DON'T want to bring that system here.


    Quote Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams View Post
    • Story Dungeons
    Dungeons that are unlocked over the course of a given expansion story that can be queued for from anywhere in the world. They include sieges, battlefield, and other non-revisitable events and locations. They reward gear with no additional passive effects.
    That's a good idea, MSQ dungeons are some of the most popular parts of FF14.

    Quote Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams View Post
    • Overworld Levelling
    Overworld enemies will be scaled to sufficiently challenge the player according to the level appropriate for the region, but can mostly be soloed without the need for a full party. Notorious monsters in the overworld may sometimes drop gear with passive effects.

    • Open-World Dungeons
    Dungeons that may be visited at any time scattered throughout the world. They cannot be queued for directly and can be explored solo or with a party. Enemies and notorious monsters may sometimes drop gear with passive effects.

    This would be a good idea if it is something like Eureka and Bozja. I've been a strong ADVOCATE for FF14 making more exploratory content that can be grinded.

    Quote Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams View Post
    • Conquest
    The political map of Valisthea is in constant flux. Orabelle Downs today might belong to Sanbreque, but by the next moon it may belong to Rosaria instead. By defeating monsters in regions as members of a specific nation, that nation’s influence will increase in said area. This allows for region-specific vendors to peddle their wares in that nation’s main city, selling items at reduced prices. Players from other nations will still be able to purchase a reduced selection of said items, marked up at a premium. Such items include equipment as well as items used for crafting.
    NO. STOP inserting POLITICS into FF14. Players DON'T WANT to deal with it, even if it's in a fantasy setting.


    Quote Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams View Post
    • PVP

    Crystal Battlefield
    A large scale battlefield where players are divided into 2 teams representing 2 randomized nations. The players claim and harvest Crystals akin to Onsal Hakair (Danshig Naadam), while eikons duel in the background.

    Crystal Skirmish
    A small scale battlefield akin to Crystalline Conflict.
    I have my doubts about the eikons dueling in the background because it MAY be extremely hard to implement, but these are good ideas.
    (6)
    Last edited by Threneras; 09-15-2023 at 06:17 AM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Boblawblah's Avatar
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    Shara Dei-ji
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 90
    didn't really like FFXVI. Felt like 90% spectacle and 10% everything else.
    (13)

  4. #4
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
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    Sep 2011
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    12,634
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Threneras View Post
    There are so MANY issues with this I don't even know where to begin. You don't get to BULLY CBU3 into making games just for your PERSONAL desire.
    ??? Read the intro:
    Quote Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams View Post
    [I]***Please note that the following is a proposed fan-made concept that seeks to reimagine FFXIV taking after FFXVI’s elements and not official Square Enix material, and is merely for speculative and entertainment purposes.
    He's bored, thought up something fun, and shared it in case anyone else was interested in other potential FF MMOs idea or in comparisons of systems between FF's most recent MMO and FF's most recent game (as its ideas might have formed instead as an MMO).

    What part of that is "bullying" CBU3 into making games "just for [his] personal desire"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Threneras
    ANOTHER dark story. Geez, you know you need some levity so players don't get stressed out right?
    Ahh, yes, that's why Dark Souls and Diablo make sure to hit their thick quota of "levity" chapters and settings...

    This wouldn't have to be everyone's cup of tea. It doesn't have to replace XIV, even; it's just considering what that setting might have done with XIV's resources (rather than an unfair comparison between, say, ARR and what that XVI's setting might do now as an MMO with 10 years' more tech).

    Quote Originally Posted by Threneras
    This CULT and MURDER storyline is too dark for FF14.
    And yet the lady lovingly carrying her crush's severed head around with her and who later joins a cult to resurrect him is among XIV's fan-favorite side-plots.

    ___________


    On the broader topic:

    Aveyond, I'd need to see more about the kit mechanics and gameplay (under)mechanics before I could really give any opinion on this.

    It seems like it'd be a more sandbox-y MMO than XIV has been, certainly, which can be a plus if there are sufficiently ambitious-yet-efficient decisions made in order to extract sufficient and sufficiently compelling play hours from that work put into making a much more living/lived-in world... but I can't make out from this whether jobs would seem less or more distinct nor combat's playflow more or less compelling, which would ultimately make or break the sale for me.
    (4)
    Last edited by Shurrikhan; 09-15-2023 at 10:28 AM.

  5. #5
    Player
    anna-steele's Avatar
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    Character
    Anna Steele
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 100
    lets start with FF16 for PC first
    (1)

  6. #6
    Player Theodric's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
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    Character
    Matthieu Desrosiers
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 90
    I'd play it. I quite liked the gritty angle that was present for much of ARR, HW and StB. I think it's a shame that FFXIV has moved away from that. The Witcher 3 and Baldur's Gate 3 show that there's a lot of appetite for that sort of thing, thankfully.

    I really like the portraits for the jobs as well.
    (5)

  7. #7
    Player
    CidHeiral's Avatar
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    Cid Heiral
    World
    Hyperion
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    Dragoon Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodric View Post
    I'd play it. I quite liked the gritty angle that was present for much of ARR, HW and StB. I think it's a shame that FFXIV has moved away from that. The Witcher 3 and Baldur's Gate 3 show that there's a lot of appetite for that sort of thing, thankfully.
    Gritty in what sense?
    (5)

  8. #8
    Player
    ZephyrMenodora's Avatar
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    Gridania
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    2,250
    Character
    Zephyr Menodora
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by CidHeiral View Post
    Gritty in what sense?
    Also genuinely interested in this question lol
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
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    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
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    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by CidHeiral View Post
    Gritty in what sense?
    Presumably?

    Moral greys. Conflicts in scope to which principles are applied rather than solely the overriding principles themselves. Actual warfare. Killed characters staying dead.

    We still see echoes of some of that in Eulmore and in Garlemald, but it definitely takes a comparative back seat in ShB and EW.
    (5)

  10. #10
    Player
    Threneras's Avatar
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    Sep 2023
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    26
    Character
    Thren Ras
    World
    Gilgamesh
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    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodric View Post
    I'd play it. I quite liked the gritty angle that was present for much of ARR, HW and StB. I think it's a shame that FFXIV has moved away from that. The Witcher 3 and Baldur's Gate 3 show that there's a lot of appetite for that sort of thing, thankfully.

    I really like the portraits for the jobs as well.
    No, most players DON'T want that "gritty" angle that you are talking about. You need to accept that your preferences are not going to come back. FF14 players today ENJOY a more laid-back experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boblawblah View Post
    didn't really like FFXVI. Felt like 90% spectacle and 10% everything else.
    Not true.

    .
    .
    .

    NOT true at ALL. Most gaming journalists actually PRAISED the combat experience of FF16 and said it delivered meaty action gameplay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    ???



    He's bored, thought up something fun, and shared it in case anyone else was interested in other potential FF MMOs idea or in comparisons of systems between FF's most recent MMO and FF's most recent game (as its ideas might have formed instead as an MMO).

    What part of that is "bullying" CBU3 into making games "just for [his] personal desire"?
    His post is phrased in a way that is like a demand. You DON'T get to demand CBU3 for turning the entire game into Valisthea, many people playing FF14 now actually ENJOY FF14 as it is unlike the negative nancies on the forums.

    Edit:

    FF14 and FF16 are VERY different products with VERY different settings. OP just needs to move on and realize that CBU3 isn't going to change this game into FF16 just for him. FF16 mimicked a LOT of the Game of Thrones setting and aesthetics, but most players in FF14 DON'T want that (which is proven by how CBU3 toned down on the politics and dark story after ARR).

    Quote Originally Posted by anna-steele View Post
    lets start with FF16 for PC first
    It's coming, they have already announced it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    Presumably?

    Moral greys. Conflicts in scope to which principles are applied rather than solely the overriding principles themselves. Actual warfare. Killed characters staying dead.

    We still see echoes of some of that in Eulmore and in Garlemald, but it definitely takes a comparative back seat in ShB and EW.
    Where's your evidence for that? There is STILL a lot of morally grey storylines in ShB and EW. Just because a story has a happier ending than in ARR doesn't mean the morality is black-and-white now. They actually made the game MORE morally grey in ShB and EW. Ascians turned from a generic evil force into a morally complicated faction in ShB and EW.
    (2)
    Last edited by Threneras; 09-15-2023 at 06:25 AM.

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