[MONK] My issues with the MONK, especially compared to other jobs.

[honest_psycho]

I started the game 2 years ago as a pugilist/monk and that job has been my main up until P7s.

But compared to the other melees, Monk not only feels clunky, it looks clunky too.

My issues in ascending order:

The animations:
- Standart combo: After every hit in the standard combo, there is a small but noticable delay until you can use the next skill (mainly after "Twin Snakes", "True Strike" and "Snap Punch")

- "Dragon Kick" has the opposite problem, there the animation is so long, that it ALWAYS gets clipped by the next skill, resulting in an ugly disruption of the visual flow.

My suggestions: Either overhaul the animations, so there is a bit more "action" like with "Bootshine" and "Demolish" or reduce the GCD of all skills by, like, 0.2 seconds,
which would result in a faster playstyle to better differentiate the MONK from the other melees.

The gameplay:
- Why does "Perfect Balance" throw me out of my Opo/Raptor/Coeurl-form?
Every time after using it, I have to "restart" my combo, starting with "Bootshine" etc.

Why can I not continue the combo from the skill I last used?
For example, I press "Perfect balance" and use "Dragonkick", "Bootshine" and then "Dragonkick", PB ends and I get into Raptor-Form so I can use the second Comboskill again (OR just give "Form Shift" after PB ends).
This would hugely improve the combo flow.
(EDIT: you dont have BLitz or Form Shift in low-lvl dungeons)

- "Phantom Rush".
When you play normally, you have to first do PB twice (collecting a Lunar and Solar Nadi respectively) and then wait until your third PB, so you can finally use "Phantom Rush", which is the highest DMG skill we have.
The problem is, with that opener, PR will ALWAYS be ready OUTSIDE the usual 2min raid buffs window, meaning, you'd have to "waste" a PB to do a "double solar opener" to align PR into everyone elses buff window.
This feels awful.



I liked the MONK-aesthetic, but it is just not fun compared to other melee-jobs.

[VentVanitas]

The gameplay:
- Why does "Perfect Balance" throw me out of my Opo/Raptor/Coeurl-form?
Every time after using it, I have to "restart" my combo, starting with "Bootshine" etc.

Why can I not continue the combo from the skill I last used?
For example, I press "Perfect balance" and use "Dragonkick", "Bootshine" and then "Dragonkick", PB ends and I get into Raptor-Form so I can use the second Comboskill again (OR just give "Form Shift" after PB ends).
This would hugely improve the combo flow.

you can, though? that's what the Formless Fist buff after using a Blitz is for. you're generally never holding onto a Blitz after using PB if that is the scenario you're referring to.

[honest_psycho]

you can, though? that's what the Formless Fist buff after using a Blitz is for. you're generally never holding onto a Blitz after using PB if that is the scenario you're referring to.

You dont have Blitz in low level, forgot to mention.
And you dont get the Formless Buff after PB.

[Tetsujin]

I'm never sure what you guys mean by clunky in this forum, everyone says everything is clunky in some way on these forums, but I will give you this; MNK has IMHO terrible hand to hand animations. I don't care that they're unrealistic, although a lot could be improved in terms of delivering impact. I mean they are straight up ugly, nonsensical, too slow, or the key poses are questionable.

Here are some examples that irk me:

Shadow of the Destroyer
https://i.imgur.com/W8UNSsa.png

Bad form, low angle on shadow of the destroyer. Aside from the fact that the monk does NOT commit on building up momentum and delivering a sick 720 kick at the end or something along those lines, he also lands with his back turned, one extra swirl for no reason.

Four Point Fury
https://i.imgur.com/APyPkle.png
Its follow up. Everything with four point fury is bad IMO. It's extremely slow, there's like a pause to the handstand, and then once again MNK gets up back turned to enemy. Why? Copying capoeira's wheel kicks or spinning on the back would've been way cooler.

Form Shift
https://i.imgur.com/AOwBVTG.png
Form shift, flailing arms around. Looks so bad.

Perfect Balance
https://i.imgur.com/MrzyanG.png
Perfect balance. Do I need to say anything? Bro.

Rising Phoenix
https://i.imgur.com/yaC8c8W.png
Rising Phoenix is obviously based on a Wushu butterfly kick, except the legs are once again low. Bad form, weak key pose, and another mandatory land and super weak twirl.

I think leaning into the fantasy of being a blitzing powerhouse is for the best, but man, when an uppercut lacks impact, RIP. I think their best animations are phatom rush, enlightenment, and demolish.

p.s: I dunno how to warp text with images so, links it is. I could probably post a million other things but I think this gets the point across.

[Taranok]

So, my 2 cents on monk as well. Riddle of Wind is an atrociously designed ability. It is 750 potency over 15 seconds by...auto attacking sooner. Its damage is fine, but its animation is horrifically underwhelming.

Also, Disciplined Fist should be locked while doing your Perfect Balance combo, all the way up to the finisher. The 'natural' rotation of pressing PB on cooldown has the player drop disciplined fist and it feels rather cumbersome to design a mechanic like this, regardless of the player's ability to deal with it or not.

I'm never sure what you guys mean by clunky in this forum, everyone says everything is clunky in some way on these forums, but I will give you this; MNK has IMHO terrible hand to hand animations. I don't care that they're unrealistic, although a lot could be improved in terms of delivering impact. I mean they are straight up ugly, nonsensical, too slow, or the key poses are questionable.

Typically, clunky means rough, unfinished, jarring, or otherwise 'not smooth.' There are multiple use cases for it, including but not limited to:

• Animation locks that prevent smooth execution of abilities.
• Network lag that prevents smooth execution of abilities.
• Too many abilities that feel like you need to use them simultaneously and you lack the action economy to smoothly deal with them.
• Animations that are rough, interrupted, or so long they are cut all the time.
• The class regularly putting you into a compromising position as part of its normal, natural rotation.

Monk kind of deals with all of these except animation locks. However, the biggest offender of E.G. animation clipping has to be bloodletter on Bard. That ability is a literal GCD in length and never, ever, fully casts. It's a giant red + that is constantly interrupted and is insanely noticeable.

[VentVanitas]

You dont have Blitz in low level, forgot to mention.
And you dont get the Formless Buff after PB.

In this scenario you'd want to generally choose Dragon Kick after PB at the level 50ish range. I don't think this is even the most pressing issue on the job anyway, some random quirks specific to the level 50 range is frankly insubstantial.

Also, Disciplined Fist should be locked while doing your Perfect Balance combo, all the way up to the finisher. The 'natural' rotation of pressing PB on cooldown has the player drop disciplined fist and it feels rather cumbersome to design a mechanic like this, regardless of the player's ability to deal with it or not.

What...? PB isn't intended to be pressed on cooldown, nor do you even drop Twin Snakes for any significant amount of time, unless you're playing at like... zero skillspeed.

[Shurrikhan]

Also, Disciplined Fist should be locked while doing your Perfect Balance combo, all the way up to the finisher. The 'natural' rotation of pressing PB on cooldown has the player drop disciplined fist and it feels rather cumbersome to design a mechanic like this, regardless of the player's ability to deal with it or not.

No, it doesn't. There is no need to drop Disciplined Fist when playing optimally unless you're somehow avoiding even the slightest scrap of SkS.

If you're dropping DF, it's almost certainly because you're never allowing yourself to invert your Lunar/Solar order. You can and should be adapting it, especially if you're restricting yourself to extremely slow GCDs. Even then, it doesn't force PB delays, just the tiniest bit of extra thinking.

Why can I not continue the combo from the skill I last used?

Fair question, and with a simple but disappointing answer: They tied the formlessness to Blitz instead of to the consumption of the third charge of PB itself with Blitz just not consuming that buff, causing a small loss to available nuance in endgame but a major oversight to the pre-Blitz experience.

[vetch]

They tied the formlessness to Blitz instead of to the consumption of the third charge of PB itself with Blitz just not consuming that buff, causing a small loss to available nuance in endgame but a major oversight to the pre-Blitz experience.

I don't agree. Figuring out how to do steady damage by using PBs to farm crit Bootshines as much as possible without dropping Twin Snakes or overwriting Demolish when you must restart with DK afterward is one of the charms of low-level monk and is, frankly, way more interesting to me than the post-59 'you're a burst job like everyone else now, press PB to prep for the stupid burst window'.

[Shurrikhan]

I don't agree. Figuring out how to do steady damage by using PBs to farm crit Bootshines as much as possible without dropping Twin Snakes or overwriting Demolish when you must restart with DK afterward is one of the charms of low-level monk and is, frankly, way more interesting to me than the post-59 'you're a burst job like everyone else now, press PB to prep for the stupid burst window'.

...That has nothing to do with what I wrote.

The problem with early PB is it literally costs you a form every time you use it because it removes what forms you had going in and doesn't grant Formless at its end, meaning that your only useful options after each PB are... Dragon Kick or Arm of the Destroyer.

This problem happens because they tied that Formless buff to Blitz instead of to having consumed all your stacks of Perfect Balance. I.e., you need Blitz for Perfect Balance to even function fully/correctly.

[Taranok]

In this scenario you'd want to generally choose Dragon Kick after PB at the level 50ish range. I don't think this is even the most pressing issue on the job anyway, some random quirks specific to the level 50 range is frankly insubstantial.



What...? PB isn't intended to be pressed on cooldown, nor do you even drop Twin Snakes for any significant amount of time, unless you're playing at like... zero skillspeed.

So you're telling me that a new player, ignorant of the concept of BIS, is going to know this? The fact I, a non-monk main, have regularly noticed it with random gear is more than enough proof that it's enough of a problem to need addressing.

And yes, every ability in its natural rotation is used on cooldown. Even abilities with charges, as PB's charge is less a "This is for double bursting," and more a "This is to prevent drift." That's part of why it's called a 'natural' rotation and not an optimized one.