Random thought to make things less...easy.

[Renalt]

Now I know this will be unpopular but it would be true in the sense things would be more difficult and there would be more animosity between healer and people who don't learn mechanics...

Make Raise an ability used only outside of combat.

How many Alliance raids have you been in in which you pull through because the healers are on top of it and just pick people off the ground time and time again? I've seen it a good number of times myself and started to think...

Man...if it wasn't for Raise...this run would have never got as far as it did.

WoW did this and I remember it was hectic but it meant everyone was on their game. If healing was poor...then tank goes down followed by DPS and then healer. If tanking is bad then tank goes down and healer struggles to keep DPS alive. If DPS is lame then the tank and healer expend their resources till dry and then a wipe will happen shortly after.

However Raise is easy to do here. You just dust them off and it's no big deal. Between Thin Air and Lucid Dreaming my WHM may as well have infinite MP.

Fights would definitely change if Raise wasn't a "fix-all" solution readily available.

[TheOperator3712]

It would certainly make wipes more common and reinforce the notion that you can't stand in the fire.

[ASkellington]

I say no, only because the only fun I have in the game these days is being able to chain res and save a run from wiping as rare as it is.

Please don't take that from me just yet.

[Boblawblah]

I'm not sure a newbie lying dead for the entire fight while everyone else does the mechanics properly would be enjoyable for the newbie.

[NekoMataMata]

I'm not sure a newbie lying dead for the entire fight while everyone else does the mechanics properly would be enjoyable for the newbie.

And that feeling will make them want to learn the fight won't it? Don't want to lay on the floor having to watch the rest of the fight? Don't die.

Besides that I'm pretty sure Yoshi P even said something about disliking SMN having res and that they wanted to remove it in 7.0. RDM res will probably follow(or should).

The main issue to me is that the community isn't ready for something like this. It probably never will be.

[Fyrebrand]

And that feeling will make them want to learn the fight won't it? Don't want to lay on the floor having to watch the rest of the fight? Don't die.

I can understand the logic of this, but realistically I don't think it would work out that way in practice. Imagine a new player just going through MSQ for the first time. Every dungeon, they get to a boss and maybe die because they don't know the mechanics. So instead of playing, they just sit and watch as the rest of the party does the encounter. By the end, they've barely done anything and move on to do more story. Next dungeon, same thing happens. They go through the entire MSQ lying on the floor and basically not playing the game. Or more likely, they don't like this pattern of non-participation and just stop playing. Main Scenario Roulette is currently considered "tab out to Netflix content." Imagine if the entire game was that. Not good times.

Heck, there would even be people who die on purpose and try to pretend it was an accident, just to get a free carry.

Besides that I'm pretty sure Yoshi P even said something about disliking SMN having res and that they wanted to remove it in 7.0. RDM res will probably follow(or should).

If that's the case, it seems pretty strange that Summoner would still have the ability to revive after they dramatically reworked it. Like, wasn't that the time to do it? Anyway, I like that DPS jobs have support skills and sort of blur the roles a bit. Also makes it a bit more interesting as a healer when strategically choosing who to revive when multiple people go down.

[NekoMataMata]

I can understand the logic of this, but realistically I don't think it would work out that way in practice. Imagine a new player just going through MSQ for the first time. Every dungeon, they get to a boss and maybe die because they don't know the mechanics. So instead of playing, they just sit and watch as the rest of the party does the encounter. By the end, they've barely done anything and move on to do more story. Next dungeon, same thing happens. They go through the entire MSQ lying on the floor and basically not playing the game. Or more likely, they don't like this pattern of non-participation and just stop playing. Main Scenario Roulette is currently considered "tab out to Netflix content." Imagine if the entire game was that. Not good times.

Heck, there would even be people who die on purpose and try to pretend it was an accident, just to get a free carry.



If that's the case, it seems pretty strange that Summoner would still have the ability to revive after they dramatically reworked it. Like, wasn't that the time to do it? Anyway, I like that DPS jobs have support skills and sort of blur the roles a bit. Also makes it a bit more interesting as a healer when strategically choosing who to revive when multiple people go down.

Yeah, there would definitely be leeches. To avoid said leeches we'd develop a culture of votekicking them on sight. Probably would turn very toxic very fast.

Like I said, the community isn't ready and will never be ready.

Also, don't shoot the messenger:

――やはり“リザレク”はなくす可能性があったのでしょうか？

So does this indeed mean Resurrection will be gone in the future?

吉田当初は「なんとしても消そう」という方針ではあったのですが、開発チーム内でも「今回はまだ残しても良いのでは」という見解と5分5分となり、「最後は吉田判断で！」ということになりました。拡張パッケージをリリースした直後は、どうしてもコンテンツによる相性などにより、2～3%の火力誤差が出てしまうことが多いです。もちろん、出来る限り無くすように、必死に調整してはいます。しかし、もしそれでダメージが我々の想定よりもやや下振れした場合に、「大きく変更されたのに！」「“リザレク”も取られたのに！」と言われるのが怖くて……（笑）。

Yoshida: Initially the direction was to “remove this skill no matter what”, but our development team was split into 50:50 on whether to remove or to retain the spell. Lastly they went “Right, let’s get Yoshida to decide on this!” and thus the spell remained. Cases where 2% to 3% difference in firepower depending on the content affinity right after a release of an expansion is always there, and of course, we did our absolute best to close the gap between jobs, but it became scary when we got responses like “it was so drastically changed!”, or “you took away Resurrection and that’s what we got!?” when the damage was adjusted lower than expected.

――さきほどの吟遊詩人の問題と同じで、いる派といらない派の両方がいますからね。

So it was similar to the issues with Bard mentioned earlier, and there are players who think it was necessary or otherwise. 吉田「“リザレク”を使うと、MPがなくなるし、火力も下がるから嫌。蘇生を期待されるくらいなら、最初からないほうがいい」という人もいると思いますが、そういう人は固定パーティーなどの人脈に恵まれている人でもあるのかな、と思うのです。逆に、召喚士といえば、「パーティーにいてくれれば“リザレク”の保証がある」と感じている人も多いと思います。つまり召喚士をパーティーに入れるメリットが、意識の中に存在している、ということです。大きくジョブのメカニクスを変えたぶんだけ、保険も必要だと考えました。ただ、この改修が上手く回るようなら、今後なくす可能性は大いにあると思っていてください。 　あと「黒魔道士に蘇生手段を入れては？」という話題も拝見したことがありますが、開発チームに「一応聞きますけど……」と尋ねられた際に、「黒魔道士には、蘇生に使う“迅速魔”はない」と返しました。すみません。「“三連魔”と“迅速魔”で4人起こせますよ！」と冗談も飛んだのですが、「蘇生手段を持っていても、黒魔道士は蘇生しないだろうなあ」と。破壊の力である黒魔法の使い手ですし……（苦笑）。

Yoshida: Of course there are people who think “we’ll be out of MP and our firepower would drop if we use Resurrection. If people expected us to raise them, might as well remove them completely”, but I feel that those who think so are ones who are blessed with connections through static parties. On the other hand, there are people who would think parties with Summoners are definitely guaranteed with Resurrection, and this means players may subconsciously think there are merits of having a Summoner in the party. We thought Summoners should have some form of insurance despite having drastic changes to its job mechanics. However, please take note that the chances of Resurrection getting removed completely in the future will be high if this rework ends up going well.

I also used to see comments about “what about Black Mages, will they gain any methods to resurrect?” and the development team inquired about the possibility, to which I replied “There are no resurrection type spells for Black Mages to use their Swiftcast on”. So yes, I apologize. There were jokes about having to resurrect up to 4 times using Triplecast and Swiftcast but I don’t think Black Mages would be using Resurrection spells even if they have one. I mean, Black Mages are destructive and they are experts in destruction… (laughs bitterly)

[Brightamethyst]

And that feeling will make them want to learn the fight won't it? Don't want to lay on the floor having to watch the rest of the fight? Don't die.

It's actually the opposite. I newbie who dies to the first mechanic and spends the rest of the fight on the floor is FAR more likely to leave thinking "that sucked, I'm never doing it again", than "I want to practice that til I get it right." Especially if it keeps happening every time they do a new piece of content.

[OgruMogru]

I get pinchy and mad enough as it is when a tank explodes right before a tank buster and it snaps to a dps [usually me] and I get punished for their mistake. Being glued to the floor because of it would be pure toxic waste.

Radioactive.

[Fyrebrand]

With respect, I have to disagree with this idea. To some degree, yes, it would make fights harder. But I think there would be other side effects that are bad for the game.

1) It doesn't increase the difficulty of the content for the actual people who screw up mechanics and die. They simply... stop participating. And they sit there watching other people play for several minutes, not practicing and not learning the fight.

2) It will make fights drag on and on if multiple people die.

3) As you say, it will provoke animosity between players, and not just healers. People will get annoyed at people who die, as it makes their fight last longer. Players will fight over whether or not to wipe the whole group if too many are on the ground, some will intentionally kill themself just to force it. People will kick players who die, and more people will just leave and not want to play the game at all.

4) We will pretty much never be able to clear a Nier raid ever again, but even if it does it will take 80 minutes depending how many deaths there are along the way. And that's if enough people stick around to even bother trying. I think a lot would instantly leave as soon as roulette plops them in there.

5) An individual player can do everything perfectly and still die. People can accidentally pile on top of you with multiple AoE markers, or you get randomly marked with a stack marker and not enough people make it to you in time. Or a noob tank spins the boss around and cleaves a bunch of people. Now, you might say "It will force that tank to learn." Uh, no it won't. If they don't learn from all the people yelling at them to stop spinning the boss, then getting some people killed isn't gonna do it either.

This is just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are more reasons to be found. But also, I'll say that we do have things like Vulnerability stacks and resurrection debuffs to somewhat punish failure. I could see the argument that maybe that's not enough to make an impact and make people want to perform better, but I don't think getting rid of battle Raise is the answer we need.