What is Midcore? Why does it matter?

[Raven2014]

In HW, fflogs became a thing, cross world PF became a thing and killed the desire to form FCs and Link Shells, people didn't stay on groups that showed promise, people starting asking for logs and shit, getting statics was way harder, groups just didn't form organically like in ARR. Navigating the current hardcore community is quite exhausting.

These are just one side of the argument that give half a story:

- People didn't ask for log during ARR: hum, that's probably why the first 3 statics I joint back in ARR struggle to beat Coils enrage even at 10 or 15% echo. Miraculous all static I joint since SB never had that problem, I wonder why?

- FC: I tell you two reasons why I'm not in an FC, .drama free and benefit. Some people I played with these days ... we're used to be in the same FC, we just decided all split up and own our own FC house instead.


- People didn't stay on groups that showed promise: not really. People are always desperate for promised group. If the group actually shows promise people will beg to stay. If the group hit the stated progging point and progress. Like, even once the lockout run out, these people would even ask if anyone willing to stay for another round. But groups that wiped multiple time at a point 2-3 behind the one stated in PF. Yeah people will leave. If you gonna blame, blame the bad actors

The rest of your post is -to be honest - feel like you just want to either play the victim card and play charitable with other time.

- Do you know why people get pissed/impatient in learning party where there are few apples who clearly not at the current prog point? It's because these party often time are not the only one available. When content comes out, there are always tone of party available at every prog point. Yet a lot of people still want to join party that well ahead of their own for selfish reason.

- Do you know you don't have to navigate the hardcore community to do the hardcore content? A glance at most recruiting site/discord and one can see they are always a wide range of static available. From weekone - log required all the way down to casual-social static no log we clear when we clear if we clear. What prevent you from joining those group?

A lot of time, complain like yours are often stem of a sense of entitlement. By over-evaluate your own ability and think you deserve somthing more ... often without proof. Then pull the victim card when other put up a wall and prevent you joining their circle. Guess what, even with those wall it's not like the content is locked out for you.


Offering myself as an example: I had cleared Ultimate, I usually get savage done withint 4-5 weeks of release. But this tier, since it's the last one and I'm not in a hurry, I decided to join an "ultra-casual" static.


- There is no time commitment.
- Nobody care about logging.
- Almost every single week we gonna cancel raid, from work reason to someone just decide to get drunk that night.
- We cleared P12 just 3 weeks ago, but hey, we still cleared.
- We're casual and proud of it.


People like you always make it sound like the door is close to you, but often it's only because you try to go through a door that you don't fit.

[Renathras]

I don't think that the statement that 'Extreme/Savage are aimed at the midcore playerbase' is intended to give offense. It's a statement of fact - pretty much anyone can work through it, given enough time. If you're not even getting your feet wet, how do you know how difficult it is to swim? What's being described is not even 'casual', it's just flat out non-participatory.

I've given up on clearing GolbEx for the time being. I spent several weeks in it and could never find a party where at LEAST 3-4 people didn't die during Gales 2. It took about 3 weeks before I consistently got PF groups that could clear the first pushback well, and people would still mess up from time to time, causing a wipe. Gales 2 clears, even now, are mostly "a healer survived and used LB3", which only works...until Gales 3 hits.

I've just given up. Note I've cleared most Extremes ON PATCH (often within the first few weeks) since 5.0, and the ones I didn't, shortly after (usually due to busy life stuff since I was in the military for part of that time). This is the first Extreme in 4 years that I've just decided not to bother with after about two months of trying to find a functional PF group that could clear 5 body checks in a single fight and not finding one able to do so.

No, that's not midcore. That's hardcore. And it's not "non-participatory". I can't do two healer LB3s in a row to make up for party mistakes (and that's when I'm NOT the healer paired with someone mucking up the mechanics consistently enough I get one-shot by being the only person in my 2 man circle because my partner died to gales AGAIN and I die through absolutely no fault of my own and have NO WAY TO CORRECT FOR THIS no matter how skilled I am at my Job or the game).

[ChrysOCE]

No, that's not midcore. That's hardcore. And it's not "non-participatory". I can't do two healer LB3s in a row to make up for party mistakes (and that's when I'm NOT the healer paired with someone mucking up the mechanics consistently enough I get one-shot by being the only person in my 2 man circle because my partner died to gales AGAIN and I die through absolutely no fault of my own and have NO WAY TO CORRECT FOR THIS no matter how skilled I am at my Job or the game).

Agree completely

[Lyth]

If you know the mechanics and are clear ready, then it's not really a fight difficulty issue. You won't clear if you're consistently playing with people behind your progression point. Either get a group of friends together and clear it, or be upfront and strict about your goals in PF and make revisions to your group as needed.

All PF content is paradoxically easier the earlier that you do it (i.e. the first couple of days will generally have you be done in a couple of lockouts.) If you want to be time efficient, it's always easier to invest your time in upfront than later on, especially when there's no 'gearing' to be had. Try this with the 6.5 Extreme when it gets released. You'll be amazed at how much easier it is.

[GaiaBell]

Personally any content below Ultimates for me is midcore, and even some of the legacy ults like uwu/ucob are still midcore.

[Zeastria]

When you have limmited time to play games:
it's your available play time that decides what you can do or cant do..

[GaiaBell]

golbez is midcore content because it's just a slight step up from normal content

[Renathras]

If you know the mechanics and are clear ready, then it's not really a fight difficulty issue. You won't clear if you're consistently playing with people behind your progression point. Either get a group of friends together and clear it, or be upfront and strict about your goals in PF and make revisions to your group as needed.

And that's the dividing line between midcore and hardcore: Group formation.

Hardcore content requires coordinated groups of highly skilled players. Midcore content does not.

That's why GolbEx is hardcore content, not midcore content.

.

EDIT:

golbez is midcore content because it's just a slight step up from normal content

Good god...

Well, this is a great example of what out of touch looks like, I suppose.

A lot of Coil was easier than a lot of normal fights today. It was easy to get started in Coil. I think people have been sleeping on how much more difficult the game has become. Groups and Link Shells just fell on your lap if you could press buttons and commit to a schedule, even if it's 2 hours on saturday and sunday... but even Coil had its own gatekeeping, Ceruleum Processing Plant was super lonely and sad compared to Wineport.

In HW, fflogs became a thing, cross world PF became a thing and killed the desire to form FCs and Link Shells, people didn't stay on groups that showed promise, people starting asking for logs and shit, getting statics was way harder, groups just didn't form organically like in ARR. Navigating the current hardcore community is quite exhausting.

Yeah, people forget how much things have changed. It's like people in WoW forgetting that "Molten Snore" was called that for a reason. Boss mechanics are FAR more complex and punishing now than they used to be. There's no rational argument that 1st Turn of Coils 1 was harder than even P1S, with P1S being called "easy" by current Savage standards.

And, as you say, parsers didn't even exist in ARR/Coils, and weren't demanded for entering a Static to fight.

[Cyanamists]

And that's the dividing line between midcore and hardcore: Group formation.

Hardcore content requires coordinated groups of highly skilled players. Midcore content does not.

That's why GolbEx is hardcore content, not midcore content.

So this is the problem that a lot of people on this thread are trying to hash out, because everyone will have a biased outlook on what their hard/mid "core" content looks like. If I were to take 7 of my friends and set a schedule to do hunts every, say 16 hours and we do all of them together, does that make us a hardcore static? Hunts are notably just casual content because they're zerged down within 60 seconds by large groups, but if it's only a full party doing it, does it then become hardcore content? I'm not sure if I'm explaining my analogy correctly so sorry about that but I guess the main point is the midcore content does not and has never required highly skilled players, it requires a player or players who have a general grasp of their jobs and the game and asks them to put in the effort for a reward.

Golbez, while arguably one of the harder EX trials this expansion, still falls in line with midcore content, I believe. Most mechanics happen faster than normal or paired together(it actually feels like they got rid of a mechanic or adds phase at the first 2 minutes because he just sits there and does nothing for so long), and the main body checks for the fight are towers + knockback and room wide dodges into enumeration pairs, which has been drilled plenty into people by now, or something very similar.

Compared to HW, pf has been abundant and the general player base has gotten better at the game(take with a grain of salt), that can be seen by generally increased clear rates on savage fights across each expansion. If anything, party finder has made raiding more accessible to bordering midcore content just because it is "jump in and out", point being is that there still needs to be a "jump in" portion.

[DPZ2]

So, 20 EX and 10 SVG fights? 2 EX and 3 SVG? Numbers please. And a poll somewhere that reflects those numbers would be nice.

How about Varient dungeons and their "savage" counterparts?

And a true definition of 'midcore' rather than handwaving, please.

[To everyone: are Mythic+ dungeons in WoW to be considered as 'midcore'?]