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  1. #111
    Player
    Lyth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Meracydia
    Posts
    3,883
    Character
    Lythia Norvaine
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    If you know the mechanics and are clear ready, then it's not really a fight difficulty issue. You won't clear if you're consistently playing with people behind your progression point. Either get a group of friends together and clear it, or be upfront and strict about your goals in PF and make revisions to your group as needed.

    All PF content is paradoxically easier the earlier that you do it (i.e. the first couple of days will generally have you be done in a couple of lockouts.) If you want to be time efficient, it's always easier to invest your time in upfront than later on, especially when there's no 'gearing' to be had. Try this with the 6.5 Extreme when it gets released. You'll be amazed at how much easier it is.
    (0)

  2. #112
    Player
    Fawkes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,728
    Character
    Fawkes Macleod
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth View Post
    You can have casual players who have ultimate clears because they are that skilled. You can have hardcore players that struggle in the story.
    (8)

  3. #113
    Player
    SophiaDL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2023
    Posts
    446
    Character
    Laura Hallowheart
    World
    Marilith
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth View Post
    The problem is "Casual" doesn't mean bad. it just means "doesn't play as much".


    You can have casual players who have ultimate clears because they are that skilled. You can have hardcore players that struggle in the story.


    This has always been a problem in XIV for some reason. People use casual for "easy" and not time invested.
    (2)

  4. #114
    Player
    GaiaBell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2023
    Posts
    5
    Character
    Alice Mare
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    Personally any content below Ultimates for me is midcore, and even some of the legacy ults like uwu/ucob are still midcore.
    (0)

  5. #115
    Player
    Zeastria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2023
    Location
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Posts
    507
    Character
    Nathaniel Lenox
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    When you have limmited time to play games:
    it's your available play time that decides what you can do or cant do..
    (0)
    SCH/AST/DNC/VPR/SMN

  6. #116
    Player
    Renathras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,747
    Character
    Ren Thras
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyth View Post
    If you know the mechanics and are clear ready, then it's not really a fight difficulty issue. You won't clear if you're consistently playing with people behind your progression point. Either get a group of friends together and clear it, or be upfront and strict about your goals in PF and make revisions to your group as needed.
    And that's the dividing line between midcore and hardcore: Group formation.

    Hardcore content requires coordinated groups of highly skilled players. Midcore content does not.

    That's why GolbEx is hardcore content, not midcore content.

    .

    EDIT:

    Quote Originally Posted by GaiaBell View Post
    golbez is midcore content because it's just a slight step up from normal content
    Good god...

    Well, this is a great example of what out of touch looks like, I suppose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ririta View Post
    A lot of Coil was easier than a lot of normal fights today. It was easy to get started in Coil. I think people have been sleeping on how much more difficult the game has become. Groups and Link Shells just fell on your lap if you could press buttons and commit to a schedule, even if it's 2 hours on saturday and sunday... but even Coil had its own gatekeeping, Ceruleum Processing Plant was super lonely and sad compared to Wineport.

    In HW, fflogs became a thing, cross world PF became a thing and killed the desire to form FCs and Link Shells, people didn't stay on groups that showed promise, people starting asking for logs and shit, getting statics was way harder, groups just didn't form organically like in ARR. Navigating the current hardcore community is quite exhausting.
    Yeah, people forget how much things have changed. It's like people in WoW forgetting that "Molten Snore" was called that for a reason. Boss mechanics are FAR more complex and punishing now than they used to be. There's no rational argument that 1st Turn of Coils 1 was harder than even P1S, with P1S being called "easy" by current Savage standards.

    And, as you say, parsers didn't even exist in ARR/Coils, and weren't demanded for entering a Static to fight.
    (4)
    Last edited by Renathras; 09-14-2023 at 01:06 AM. Reason: Marked with EDIT

  7. #117
    Player
    Ririta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    444
    Character
    Ririta Rita
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyth View Post
    I think this may be influenced by when you first started playing. In ARR, everyone did everything. If you wanted to experience the Coil storyline, you did the Coil fights. So everyone and their chocobo did them, regardless of whether they were 'casual' or 'hardcore'. If you struggled with a fight, your friends helped you out at the end of the tier. The distinctions in playstyle came from how quickly you progressed through content, not based off whether you even tried them in the first place.

    While Gordias may have put some people off of raiding, every tier released from Creator on has been very clearable on release for the average player, if you're willing to spend some time learning. It might take you a couple of days or six months, but you can get through it if you stick with it. I just think that rebranding the content as 'Savage' probably put some of the newer iterations of players off even trying at all, though, despite it being incredibly accessible. You do have to get over your fear of wiping groups though. Absolutely everyone will cause wipes. Just learn something new from each one.

    I don't think that the statement that 'Extreme/Savage are aimed at the midcore playerbase' is intended to give offense. It's a statement of fact - pretty much anyone can work through it, given enough time. If you're not even getting your feet wet, how do you know how difficult it is to swim? What's being described is not even 'casual', it's just flat out non-participatory.
    A lot of Coil was easier than a lot of normal fights today. It was easy to get started in Coil. I think people have been sleeping on how much more difficult the game has become. Groups and Link Shells just fell on your lap if you could press buttons and commit to a schedule, even if it's 2 hours on saturday and sunday... but even Coil had its own gatekeeping, Ceruleum Processing Plant was super lonely and sad compared to Wineport.

    In HW, fflogs became a thing, cross world PF became a thing and killed the desire to form FCs and Link Shells, people didn't stay on groups that showed promise, people starting asking for logs and shit, getting statics was way harder, groups just didn't form organically like in ARR. Navigating the current hardcore community is quite exhausting.
    (2)

  8. #118
    Player
    GaiaBell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2023
    Posts
    5
    Character
    Alice Mare
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    golbez is midcore content because it's just a slight step up from normal content
    (0)

  9. #119
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,589
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Ririta View Post
    A lot of Coil was easier than a lot of normal fights today. It was easy to get started in Coil. I think people have been sleeping on how much more difficult the game has become. Groups and Link Shells just fell on your lap if you could press buttons and commit to a schedule, even if it's 2 hours on saturday and sunday... but even Coil had its own gatekeeping, Ceruleum Processing Plant was super lonely and sad compared to Wineport.

    In HW, fflogs became a thing, cross world PF became a thing and killed the desire to form FCs and Link Shells, people didn't stay on groups that showed promise, people starting asking for logs and shit, getting statics was way harder, groups just didn't form organically like in ARR. Navigating the current hardcore community is quite exhausting.
    Which coil fights were easier than current normals (T3 doesn’t count)

    1 was around an easy extreme, 2 got gear cheesed but used to be around a mid extreme it only for allagen Rot and it’s tight enrage, 4 was kinda a joke, 5 was a full savage fight, 6 besides leaf storm being cheesed was a regular savage, 7 was evil, 8 was a normal savage, 9 was a difficult savage, 10 was very hard for a first turn savage, 11 was a normal savage, 12 was a control fight so something incredibly rare these days, 13 was a regular savage
    (2)

  10. #120
    Player
    Cyanamists's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    28
    Character
    Lyreth Nikos
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Renathras View Post
    And that's the dividing line between midcore and hardcore: Group formation.

    Hardcore content requires coordinated groups of highly skilled players. Midcore content does not.

    That's why GolbEx is hardcore content, not midcore content.
    So this is the problem that a lot of people on this thread are trying to hash out, because everyone will have a biased outlook on what their hard/mid "core" content looks like. If I were to take 7 of my friends and set a schedule to do hunts every, say 16 hours and we do all of them together, does that make us a hardcore static? Hunts are notably just casual content because they're zerged down within 60 seconds by large groups, but if it's only a full party doing it, does it then become hardcore content? I'm not sure if I'm explaining my analogy correctly so sorry about that but I guess the main point is the midcore content does not and has never required highly skilled players, it requires a player or players who have a general grasp of their jobs and the game and asks them to put in the effort for a reward.

    Golbez, while arguably one of the harder EX trials this expansion, still falls in line with midcore content, I believe. Most mechanics happen faster than normal or paired together(it actually feels like they got rid of a mechanic or adds phase at the first 2 minutes because he just sits there and does nothing for so long), and the main body checks for the fight are towers + knockback and room wide dodges into enumeration pairs, which has been drilled plenty into people by now, or something very similar.

    Compared to HW, pf has been abundant and the general player base has gotten better at the game(take with a grain of salt), that can be seen by generally increased clear rates on savage fights across each expansion. If anything, party finder has made raiding more accessible to bordering midcore content just because it is "jump in and out", point being is that there still needs to be a "jump in" portion.
    (0)

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