What is Midcore? Why does it matter?

[SophiaDL]

Midcore content is casual content

change my mind.

[LittleImp]

I almost think we should just ditch the terminology altogether; There's enough discourse on these forums to demonstrate that casual/midcore/hardcore are not only subjective, but also regularly change definitions respective to the scope of what is being discussed.

For example, all three terms (Casual, midcore, hardcore) can be invoked to describe different levels of savage+ raiding groups, and tend to be based on time commitment, skill-level and ambition. Yet, when we're talking about the full scope of the game, the terms are almost always applied instead based on what types of content someone is interested in. This creates a lot of confusion, willful and otherwise, wherein people aren't operating with shared definitions of the terms they're mutually using.

I've started to just say things like "We need more content like X" or "Content like X but with the difficulty of Y" because the subjectivity around 'midcore' is too confusing in many cases.

[Berkin]

I almost think we should just ditch the terminology altogether; There's enough discourse on these forums to demonstrate that casual/midcore/hardcore are not only subjective, but also regularly change definitions respective to the scope of what is being discussed.

The one thing that's not subjective is the significant gap between current Ex's and the hardest content before it, which would be normal raids and alliance raids. It's a substantial increase not only in mechanical difficulty, but in time commitment and personal responsibility as well.

There's really no other gap as large as this one if you were to lay out the content as stepping stones:

Guildhest(lmao) - Dungeon - Trial - Alliance/Normal Raids - *void* - Extreme trials/Early Savage - Late Savage - Old Ultimates - DSR/TOP

A few things to note:

-Having easier Extremes helps a little bit but as soon as we're getting into asinine body checks like Golbez it's really not much different than early savage.
-Had they done Criterion correctly it would serve as a better bridge just like Bozja/Eureka stuff did, but as it is it's just another Savage.
-DD would probably also work as a bridge difficulty wise if it wasn't for the huge time commitment and personal responsibility.
-You could also argue that over gearing Ex's and early savage fills that gap but not only does that feel silly it also means we're still getting no """midcore""" content on odd patches, only on even patches due to new gear.

I don't think it's a hard problem to solve though, with Exploratory content and an actual middle ground in Criterion being the obvious solutions.

[Shurrikhan]

For example, all three terms (Casual, midcore, hardcore) can be invoked to describe different levels of savage+ raiding groups, and tend to be based on time commitment, skill-level and ambition. Yet, when we're talking about the full scope of the game, the terms are almost always applied instead based on what types of content someone is interested in. This creates a lot of confusion, willful and otherwise, wherein people aren't operating with shared definitions of the terms they're mutually using.

I'm not sure why that'd be considered especially problematic, let alone unique. The same occurs with most words covering spans of a given spectrum. Their referents are contextual and half the time signal things tangential to those spectrums anyways.

"I play Savage casually" makes plenty of sense, even if we can also say "I prefer casual content" and understand that any but perhaps the very easiest of Savage fights are probably not intended referents (especially if on-patch).

[Snorky]

I think SE is out of touch with what Midcore is and why it matters. (probably even myself)
Snipped for length

I would argue that Eureka and Bozja are the closest to fitting all rules, but still fall flat with Accessibility and some Social. Even then, most of the other content isn't MMO oriented, they're small-form Multiplayer or it's just straight up Singleplayer. So Midcore feels very lonely in our MMO.

Maybe Midcore isn't really a thing? But it sure feels like we're missing some Mid-Something, because I have no reason to login and I don't fit in with any EW content. (Playing XI for now)
At a minimum, I think we need to fix or make a new Synced Wondrous Tails.

What are your rules for Mid-Something?




(SE release housing from it's shackles)

I agree with all of your post for my part. The only trouble is unless people can agree on what actually constitutes Casual/Mid/Hard there can be no real consensus for what is needed. I think we would first have to use the definitions that SE uses as a basis for meaningful suggestions. While I like seeing others suggestions for midcore content, its all subjective. I think Bozja is a good example of mid content but some others might not see it that way. I raided causally in ESO. Once a week or every two weeks depending on schedules. To me that was pretty casual, we used discord and when we were done we all logged out. I defined as casual raiding or casual content. So unless there is a general understanding of exactly what mid content is people will go round in circles, just my observations. Oh and I am sorry I can not watch Zephla sorry fans of hers no disrespect but after seeing the hot tub video nope no way not gonna watch her again. Sorry.

[CidHeiral]

1. Commitment: More involved than casual, but I won't need to strictly set time aside longer than 30 minutes a session. (Can I fit a short CSGO match in?)
   
   
2. Complexity: It's got depth and engagement, but I shouldn't need a guide to understand it. I should be allowed the range to think and act to the best of my ability, or play at my lowest. (Tired after work)
   
   
3. Accessibility: Easy barrier to entry, don't gatekeep me, let me play on my terms. Don't force me to sit in queue for long, or juggle PF.
   
   
4. Social: Team up with others or friends anytime, calendars not required. Hop-in / Hop-out.
   
   
5. Progression: Steady and diverse rewards that won't make me feel left out. Keep the rewards and progression engaging.
   
   
6. Flexibility: Play it my way - Instructions not included, not enforced. So what if I wanna just res people?

You want content that requires no time commitment, communication, or coordination. You want to play your worst and still succeed with great rewards.

You are describing casual content.

The more I hear from people wanting "midcore" content the more it seems like they're actually just casual players who don't want to identify as casual for whatever reason.

I almost think we should just ditch the terminology altogether; There's enough discourse on these forums to demonstrate that casual/midcore/hardcore are not only subjective, but also regularly change definitions respective to the scope of what is being discussed .... I've started to just say things like "We need more content like X" or "Content like X but with the difficulty of Y" because the subjectivity around 'midcore' is too confusing in many cases.

Agreed.

[R041]

You want content that requires no time commitment, communication, or coordination. yOU Want tO play YouR wOrST AND Still sUccEED wiTH gReAt rEWARdS.

You know that's not what I meant.

The rewards should match the effort and challenge, without requiring excessive commitment and premades. That's the whole issue. Nobody's even saying Mid should receive the same rewards as the hardest content. lol

I'd have to agree with Cid. Your definition of Mid does sound lower than Mid.

Does that mean MSQ content is lower than Casual?

I love seeing the tryhards in here acting like anyone that can't actively run premade group content is basically a sub-human casual. This is the weird split we have, you have to be a tryhard, or you stand in line with Visual Novel AFKers. It's not a good look for the community.

[CidHeiral]

You know that's not what I meant.

[*]Complexity: It's got depth and engagement, but I shouldn't need a guide to understand it. I should be allowed the range to think and act to the best of my ability, or play at my lowest. (Tired after work)

Interesting approach to create a discussion thread and then reply to discussion with spongebob memes like a petulant baby.

The rewards should match the effort and challenge, without requiring excessive commitment and premades.

Which is Extreme Trials. If you're saying we should have more content equivalent to Extreme Trials, I agree.

[Berkin]

Which is Extreme Trials. If you're saying we should have more content equivalent to Extreme Trials, I agree.

How's current extremes any different than floor 1/2 savage? (excluding p10s as it's even harder than p11s lmao)

If you want to classify that as midcore then there's still a huge gap between casual content and midcore content that's unaddressed.

[ExileOmnisoul]

Midcore would tends to be routine. This is what separates them from casuals. Players in this category would:
Cap tomestomes for the week
Stay current in the story
Do roulette until capped or daily
Some players do Extreme for gear/ mounts

Once you dedicate enter content the involves studying, planning, and communication with progression track that scales like climbing a mountain. The point where the more energy you give makes it harder and more painful to give up because there is no guarantee you will ever clear. Then you have entered hardcore.